True, but not just medical/scientific use, responsible personal usage should also be accepted.

Sam Harris, whose PhD is in neuroscience, wrote a piece on drugs that elegantly lays out the potential benefits and pitfalls that come with the use of hallucinogens, and how there may be other routes, e.g. meditation, to similar experiences. http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-...

Great article! I'm already a huge fan of Sam Harris, but I hadn't read this one yet.

That being said though - I disagree with the notion that meditation can lead to similar experiences. Meditation can certainly create very powerful and "spiritual" experiences, but only for people who are both extremely skilled meditators (which is not realistic to expect even 1% of the users of psychedelics to accomplish) and only while meditating (with psychedelics you can see/hear/taste/feel/experience the environment around you, not just the environment of your mind like with meditation).

Psychedelics should certainly be handled with extreme care (yet there's the paradox that being overly anxious/nervous about the experience may cause a bad experience), no doubt about it.

One of the cardinal rules of psychedelic use is to never do it alone though, his near-death experience in Nepal was due to breaking that rule. Being together with someone else isn't a guarantee of not having a bad trip/experience, but it's a good way to prevent putting yourself in dangerous situations like he did.

With meditation, the failure mode (if you're not ready for higher levels of conscious experience) is... non-experience. It can be frustrating to sit for half an hour and experience nothing (we've all been there) but it won't put you in a mental hospital.

With psychedelics, the failure modes are a lot worse.

I feel like psychedelics are karmic time-accelerators, by a factor of about 100-1000. The good news is that, in a way, this means that you can have a month's worth of experience in a few hours. The negative is that, if there's something negative about to ripen in the next six months, a trip can have you encountering it immediately and deprive you of the time to react to it and get the help, or make the changes, that you need.

Also, there's a perception that "meditation" is closed-eye sitting, and that you don't get to experience the external world while doing it. That's not entirely true. There are walking meditations, for just one example, and one of the goals of many meditative practices is to bring that meditative mind into your daily life. That's easier said than done; it's quite difficult, to tell the truth, and probably not desirable, for average working people, to bring the meditative mind into all aspects of daily life.

All that said, these drugs shouldn't be illegal (even for personal use, what a person wants to do with his or her own body isn't the state's business) and they definitely deserve more research. I think they have a lot of potential and deserve further study, and that the stigma/illegality do more harm (in terms of supply problems, set-and-setting issues) than good.

Thanks for the reply. I actually wasn't aware that there are forms of meditation where you experience the world around you and not just close your eyes, I'll definitely look into that.

Meditation is certainly the safer and less potent choice, nobody disagrees with that. Yet, I feel that the dangers of psychedelics are overstated, as long as you're careful and smart. Most of the bad experiences seem to come from a negative set/setting, not following the cardinal rules and too high of a dose. By starting with a small dose and gradually slowly increasing the dose for each trip you'll discover what your optimal dosage is in a gentle way with less risk of having a negative experience.

Research seems to back that up:

"One study found the most desirable results may come from starting with very low doses first, and trying slightly higher doses over months. The researchers explain the peak experiences occur at quantities only slightly lower than a sort of anxiety threshold. Although risks of experiencing fear and anxiety increased somewhat consistently along with dosage and overall quality of experience, at dosages exceeding the individual's threshold, there was suddenly greater increases in anxiety than before. In other words, after finding the optimum dose, returns diminish for using more (since risks of anxiety now increase at a greater rate)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom#Effects

Lets not forget that the "failure mode" of ordinary consumer culture awareness can be pretty extreme too

I would bet even money that open-plan offices cause more permanent mental illness than psychedelics.

That, however, is another debate.

In addition to sit down meditation, in my world view any activity you are fully involved in is meditative. That means that champion golfer, footballer, cricketer, coder, designer who are in the zone are meditating. I guess slowing down an activity and observing it as in tai chi is similarly meditative. That in essence is the point behind "Living in the Now" IMO.

These are easy to state but hard to practice and hence the allure of LSD's IMO

"Be Here Now" is an interesting read because it starts out with the LSD experimentations in Boston and ends up with a guru in India. There are scenes regarding the effect (or rather no effect) the LSD has on the guru...

As far as the "only while you're meditating" thing, zen meditation is interesting because (based on my limited understanding) zen is really about taking the practice of your meditation and extending that "mindfulness" into the rest of your life. "Zen Mind Beginners Mind" is particularly good if you're interested. Zazen is one form where you are eyes-open.

Thank you for pointing to that. I had never heard of Sam Harris, but I'm glad I did. What a talented thinker and writer.

Yes, i think the scientific and medical investigations of these substances could take part in a sociostructural change that may allow these drugs to be accessible for responsible personal usage. That also could imply a paradigmshift towards a better general education and further cultural development which may help to elevate us beyond the puerile behaviour of yesterdays.

I very much agree with this point.

There is a ton of psychoactive drugs proscribed every year, so I am not really sure what your suggesting?

People also use alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine vary frequently.

If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be that medically useful. There where a few appetite suppressants which where discontinued and Nitrous oxide still sees some use but it's risky.

> If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be medically useful.

That's not true at all. "Hallucinogens" is a group of drugs so wide that it already includes many drugs already used in conventional medicine. Just go through the many drugs on this list[1] of hallucinogens, you'll quickly find references to potential medical benefits.

Just "potential benefits" though, since there hasn't been nearly enough research done on most of them yet. A lot of them haven't been scientifically studied at all, the basic work Shulgin did is the only things we know about them.

The most common hallucinogens (mushrooms, LSD, MDMA) were considered as very promising by many in the field until research of the potential benefits of them essentially was banned for decades due to the drug war, but that has begun to change now. [2][3][4]

Recent research indicate that certain hallucinogens may be very useful in treating a variety of medical issues - like depression, anxiety, alcoholism, cluster headaches, PTSD, etc etc. [5][6]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Hallucinogens

[2] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/11/psychedelics.aspx

[3] http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/research-psychedeli...

[4] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/brain/high...

[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Medical_research

[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd#Therapies

There have been ongoing studies as recently as 2010. The issue is Hallucinations are considered a significant side effect, so you need a vary large benefit to over come it or a low enough dose people don't notice.

PS: You just linked several recent studies which hardly supports the 'completely suppressed' due to drug war argument.

A: Hallucinations are not always that common. You can have intense experiences without actual visual hallucinations.

B: While they made me a side effect, it seems the benefits come from having experiences, not as ongoing medication like SSRIs. That is, people can have a deep experience, possibly have audio and/or visual hallucinations, then recover for a day and have a significantly different outlook on life.

B: That's not quite true, there is ex some LSD research around pain management where people where far from having hallucinations.

Guys and Gals, I'm pretty sure this person typing above is a BOT.

I should have clarified, and have done so now, that I meant that research was stopped for a long time. Since the early '00s research has finally begun again:

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/11/psychedelics.aspx

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/brain/high...

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/research-psychedeli...

> The issue is Hallucinations are considered a significant side effect, so you need a vary large benefit to over come it or a low enough dose people don't notice.

Considered by whom? The "cost"/benefit balance is entirely a matter of opinion, and in my opinion the choice should be left to the sufficiently educated patient. If there are compelling reasons why the patient shouldn't be making that choice, I'd be interested to learn them.

You are so ill-informed. Read the book "DMT", from one if the top psychedelic researchers, who states that not only are psychedelics understudied, that much of the research that's been done in the past is not easily accessible. He calls it one of the biggest losses of psychotherapy research

> If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be that medically useful.

LSD and Mushrooms can be an effective treatment for cluster headaches (a debilitating disease which is said to be "The most painful medical condition known to science").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_headache

Interestingly, the effect lasts for weeks after the dose is taken (and the hallucinatory effects have worn off).

This is of interest to me because my wife is disabled by chronic refractory migraine, a close relation to cluster headaches.

Stories like this

http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2011/06/lsd-allevi...

make me deeply regret the current political/conceptual barriers to research on psychotropic compounds. I think we're missing opportunities to help quite a lot of people.

Sorry to hear that. AFAIK it's legal in most places to buy spores and grow your own, and dosage is relatively easy to control. Maybe time for a mycoculture project?

It's legal in the US (in all but three states I believe), because the spores do not contain psylocin/psylocybin. Once you start to grow them though, you could be charged with possession of a controlled substance.

Don't let that stop you though GP! It's a fun project and very satisfying to see your mushrooms finally sprouting up after a month or two of work. The risk of getting caught is low, and even if you somehow did, it would probably still be worth the penalty if they have a positive effect on your wife's headaches!

> If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem to be medically useful.

Eh? Studied extensively? Last time I checked they're all schedule I and haven't really been studied since the 70s. On top of that, in the few recent studies that have focused on them, hallucinogens do seem to be medically useful. MDMA for PTSD, psilocybin for terminally ill patients, etc.

MDMA's most infamous use that I am aware of, and which you didn't mention, is for the temporary but complete relief of the symptoms of Parkinsons. In addition I'm sure it would also be ideal for fostering empathy and discussion to come to terms with the imminent loss of terminally ill loved ones. I believe the Swiss have looked in to it for marriage counseling.

It also depends on your definition of "medically useful".

Psilocybin is certainly good for what ails me...

I'm very interested in what it would be.

Psilocybin is the most effective treatment for cluster headaches, and is known to be effective at treating depression as well. LSD has been shown to have significant potential for curing alcoholism.

See this study from Johns Hopkins:

http://www.heffter.org/research-jhus.htm

takeaway: Psilocybin may have a long-term anxiolytic effect.