News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by mikeash on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:44AM (#7944198)
I imagine the argument fails because it's obvious to anyone who looks at the company's offerings for two seconds that the "rent antennas" thing is just an excuse, and that their actual business model is that they charge for streaming TV.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by djb_hackernews on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:51AM (#7944257)
So then where is the line drawn? Am I not allowed to put an antenna on my roof? What if I put it on my neighbors because it gets a better signal?

I'm honestly curious what is wrong with renting an antenna from a company and streaming the signal, regardless of location.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by danielweber on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:10AM (#7944423)
Of course you can put an antenna on your roof. You can probably also put an antenna on your neighbor's roof. Your neighbor cannot get into the business of rebroadcasting TV signals, though.

Your intent to figure out exactly where the line is drawn is a failure that geeks have when going about the law. The law isn't written for a robot to unfailingly interpret. You won't get a good answer for the same reason the tribes making headphones out of coconuts won't get a good answer for how exactly they need to wear them for the cargo planes to come back.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by vibrolax on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:10AM (#7944425)
You are allowed to put an antenna on your roof. If your neighbor allows you to, you can put the antenna on his roof. You can even rent the antenna. You are executing a private performance. You cannot subscribe to a streaming service that "rents you an antenna" unless the service licenses retransmission of the broadcaster's content.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by kd0amg on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:54AM (#7944723)
What is it about GP's scenario that makes it a private performance? It sure looks like he's "subscribing to a streaming service that 'rents [him] an antenna'".
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by vibrolax on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @01:09PM (#7945297)
I hope I understand your question.

I think the court has found that the "distribution for pay", i.e. "Cable TV" aspects of aereo's service outweighs the "antenna rental" aspects, and that makes it charging for a public performance.

If you rent an antenna on top of the Empire State Building, digitize the signal, and set up your own means to stream it over the internet to your house in Peoria, that is probably a private performance. If you effectively sell someone access to the stream (like a Cable TV company), that is a public performance.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by kd0amg on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @01:17PM (#7945360)
The part I'm confused about is the distinction between what the Empire State Building management is doing in this setup and selling someone access.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by vibrolax on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @02:39PM (#7945919)
The SC ruled that the number of antennas or where they're located is not the heart of the issue. Aereo effectively supplied a data stream with broadcast content to subscribers (just like a cable tv company) without licensing the right to supply that content. The issue is commercial rights, not technological means. If you personally lease space for an antenna, and engineer a means to get it to your TV to watch, that's ok. If you sell access to the content stream, you are a cable TV company and have to pay redistribution license for the content.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by kd0amg on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @03:10PM (#7946134)
Aereo effectively supplied a data stream with broadcast content to subscribers (just like a cable tv company) without licensing the right to supply that content.

This is also what ESB would be doing by letting people rent antennas and streaming servers.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by mikeash on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @04:23PM (#7946541)
ESB would be renting antennas, and then what you do with them is your own business.

Aereo is selling streaming TV service that just happens to use antennas in the backend.

You might say, it's all the same in the end from a technical point of view. And you're right, but the law doesn't care about the technical point of view. From the legal point of view, Aereo is selling TV streaming, and must comply with laws for TV streaming.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by kd0amg on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @04:59PM (#7946728)
Ok, so if Aereo didn't have "TV service" all over it's marketing literature, they'd probably be in the clear?
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by mikeash on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @10:06PM (#7947808)
I think the service itself would need to be changed as well. I think if they explicitly rented antennas and that was reflected in both their marketing and their actual service (e.g. providing a raw bitstream for a user-selected frequency rather than providing a video stream for a user-selected TV channel) then they'd be alright. This is just what I've been able to understand of the situation and I'm not an expert and could be terribly, terribly wrong, of course.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by rtpg on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:29AM (#7944551)
With this ruling renting an antenna will basically never be a valid workaround. The argument is that because Aereo is the one dealing with the antennas, they are the ones doing the broadcasting.

Now, if the equipement were sold instead of rented, and obstensibly Aereo was only providing electricity to the antenna/DVR setup, then things might have been different (at least it was implied in the oral arguments). But obstensibly the service being provided by Aereo was one of broadcasting, not of hardware hosting.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by mikeash on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:08AM (#7944414)
I don't think anything is wrong with renting an antenna and streaming the signal. What's illegal here (not that I think it should be, but it seems clear enough that this is what the law says) is providing a streaming TV service without obtaining the appropriate licenses. The implementation details on the backend are irrelevant.

I don't think you'd have any trouble setting up DJB's Internet-Accessible Antenna Rental if that's what you actually offered. Stick some SDR equipment on the antenna and give me access to the raw bitstream. If I want to watch TV with the service, then I can tell your equipment to tune to the appropriate frequency, and then decode the bitstream locally. But if you set up DJB's TV Streaming without paying any license fees, and you just implement that by receiving signals from an antenna, it's a different beast even if it looks the same technologically.

Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by dublinben on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:37AM (#7944616)
You could say the exact same thing about Cablevision and their 'cloud DVR', but they won their case before the Supreme Court. Aereo was relying on that decision to enable a similarly inefficient system (1 antenna and DVR per subscriber) for broadcast TV.
Re:Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf] by mikeash on Wednesday June 25, 2014 @11:50AM (#7944696)
I agree, and crazy workarounds like that aren't very nice either.

However, I don't think the two decisions are inconsistent. As I understand it, Cablevision was already paying license fees for rebroadcasting, and the case was just about exactly what they could or could not do with that license. Aereo's case is about whether they need to pay license fees at all.