Re:Docker Misconceptions
by parasubvert on Wednesday June 11, 2014 @05:31PM
(#7880565)
"I guess that would be great, if developers had any kind of UNIX background."
Pretty common, even in the enterprise, unless you're dealing with .NET developers.
"those people are long gone"
Not in the enterprise. The startup space isn't where the money is for things like Cloud Foundry or OpenShift or Docker.
In the enterprise, usually the development team is the one to tell the ops team exactly how to install & configure the software, or have to produce a 200 page build guide with screen shots. In these environments (almost every large telecom and retail bank, for example, or the majority of outsourced EDS/IBM/Infosys/TCS organizations) ops has almost no critical thinking capability beyond a handful of "premier support" folks and "architects". I am not talking about the individuals - many of them are trying as best they can given their background. I'm talking about the way they're organized.
IBM organizes their strategic outsourcing teams, for example, in teams of about 100, with 5 to 10 senior-intermediate technical leads (they know syslog, kernel modules, TCP/IP, scripting, etc.), 20-30 intermediate technical leads (they know how to do general sysadmin tasks but don't really understand how to admin storage, the kernel or TCP/IP deeply ), and 60-80 freshers that barely can spell grep.
There are exceptions, but this is often is by design to keep the costs down.
IBM earns about $26. Billion. Dollars. in revenue doing this. Multiply that by 5x across the rest of the outsourcers. Multiply it again by 15x to cover the in-sourced shops across the world. This is an area where software is definitely eating an industry.
Docker's target is for teams where
(a) the devs do the work anyway, ops just sits there staring blankly on conference calls, perhaps operating a keyboard if you're lucky (80% of the enterprise IT shops on earth). So, route around them and only retain those who know what they're doing.
or
(b) the ops guys are devs to begin with as they've automated the shit out of everything (Netflix, Google, Startups)
Pretty common, even in the enterprise, unless you're dealing with .NET developers.
"those people are long gone"
Not in the enterprise. The startup space isn't where the money is for things like Cloud Foundry or OpenShift or Docker.
In the enterprise, usually the development team is the one to tell the ops team exactly how to install & configure the software, or have to produce a 200 page build guide with screen shots. In these environments (almost every large telecom and retail bank, for example, or the majority of outsourced EDS/IBM/Infosys/TCS organizations) ops has almost no critical thinking capability beyond a handful of "premier support" folks and "architects". I am not talking about the individuals - many of them are trying as best they can given their background. I'm talking about the way they're organized.
IBM organizes their strategic outsourcing teams, for example, in teams of about 100, with 5 to 10 senior-intermediate technical leads (they know syslog, kernel modules, TCP/IP, scripting, etc.), 20-30 intermediate technical leads (they know how to do general sysadmin tasks but don't really understand how to admin storage, the kernel or TCP/IP deeply ), and 60-80 freshers that barely can spell grep.
There are exceptions, but this is often is by design to keep the costs down.
IBM earns about $26. Billion. Dollars. in revenue doing this. Multiply that by 5x across the rest of the outsourcers. Multiply it again by 15x to cover the in-sourced shops across the world. This is an area where software is definitely eating an industry.
Docker's target is for teams where
(a) the devs do the work anyway, ops just sits there staring blankly on conference calls, perhaps operating a keyboard if you're lucky (80% of the enterprise IT shops on earth). So, route around them and only retain those who know what they're doing.
or
(b) the ops guys are devs to begin with as they've automated the shit out of everything (Netflix, Google, Startups)