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Re:Ask HN: Homogeneity of HN readers in terms of political v... by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday June 04, 2014 @11:19AM (#7846044)
> But the problem is that Marx's one, true "scientific" study of history and economics turned out to be flatly wrong. It was only by adding vanguardism that it was rescued from ending up in the ash heap of history ... and the strange thing is, other forms of collectivism, to use the broadest term, also end up with a form of vanguardism.

Yeah, but capitalism also begins and ends with vanguardism (it's called Enclosure). So does almost every ideology in human history, since any organized program of change in any status quo (whether you like it or not) almost always has to be forced and enforced. Left alone, people just go back to doing what they've "always done", which is almost uniformly such utter crap[1] that the clever people keep coming up with programs to change it. Which reactionaries then complain about for the rest of time while enjoying the blessings.

[1] http://davidbrin.blogspot.co.il/2011/11/pining-for-feudalism...

Re:Ask HN: Homogeneity of HN readers in terms of political v... by hga on Wednesday June 04, 2014 @02:17PM (#7847197)
Your point about vanguardism is very possibly correct, something I want to think about more.

But my point is not about vanguardism per se, but what vanguardism does in alignment with whatever ideology is relevant. With collectivism in its various forms it leads to extreme oppression up to and including mass slaughter as the vanguard tries to force people to align with a prescriptive, unnatural, i.e. fundamentally wrong ideology. A commonly accepted figure for the 20th Century is 100 million killed by their own socialist governments, I personally estimate (using very rough projections from those former worker's paradises where bodies have actually been counted at least somewhat) upwards of a quarter billion.

By contrast, the "ideology" of capitalism is much more aligned with human nature, it also sets up a system in which everyone is perforce required to minimally engage. Do some work, get paid some money, buy some stuff, repeat. People are strongly encouraged to do more of all of those, but there are e.g. no block or village committees that watch for layabouts and deny them the ration coupons necessary to get food.

(Appropriately, with the 25th anniversary of Tiananmen Square today, just before then my roommates were a couple of grad students from the PRC, and one of the things they told me was that Deng's economic reforms had negated the ability of these committees to casually kill people. With a free market in food getting on their wrong side meant you paid more to eat, but not automatic death by starvation.)

And of course my other point is one you implicitly agree with: pure, "scientific" Marxism does not and cannot exist.