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Re:HomeKit by untog on Monday June 02, 2014 @04:52PM (#7836294)
Shrug. Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but am I the only one not really excited for this kind of thing? Turning lights, air conditioning on and off isn't exactly a huge problem in my life.
Re:HomeKit by general_failure on Monday June 02, 2014 @05:28PM (#7836543)
This is a very myopic view. Technology needs to advance in all fronts. Once these things are integrated as part of your daily life you wont notice them anymore and will take them for granted.

These things will actually end up conserving energy in great amounts.

Re:HomeKit by wwweston on Monday June 02, 2014 @06:03PM (#7836782)
> This is a very myopic view. Technology needs to advance in all fronts

Citation, please.

Or at least a clarification of what you mean by "advance."

If you like, here's an example from writer Wendell Berry:

"To make myself as plain as I can, I should give my standards for technological innovation in my own work. They are as follows:

1. The new tool should be cheaper than the one it replaces. 2. It should be at least as small in scale as the one it replaces. 3. It should do work that is clearly and demonstrably better than the one it replaces. 4. It should use less energy than the one it replaces. 5. If possible, it should use some form of solar energy, such as that of the body. 6. It should be repairable by a person of ordinary intelligence, provided that he or she has the necessary tools. 7. It should be purchasable and repairable as near to home as possible. 8. It should come from a small, privately owned shop or store that will take it back for maintenance and repair. 9. It should not replace or disrupt anything good that already exists, and this includes family and community relationships."

http://home.btconnect.com/tipiglen/berrynot.html

(I don't expect everyone would necessarily share all these standards -- I suspect 10 in particular might be an issue for HN participants, for example --but they serve as an example and all of them have some merit.)

Re:HomeKit by nkohari on Monday June 02, 2014 @08:26PM (#7837424)
> Citation, please.

Opinions don't require citation.

Your list of requirements for technological innovation is somewhat suspect considering you're discussing it via a tremendously expensive international network of computers, which is mostly powered by coal-generated electricity, who you likely paid a multinational telecommunications company to access.

Re:HomeKit by pingswept on Monday June 02, 2014 @07:55PM (#7837302)
It appears that you're being downvoted, but I've found Wendell Berry to be one of the most insightful writers about the weaknesses of technological advances, despite the fact that he doesn't use a computer. Reading his essays would be worth the time of a lot of young programmers, if only to learn why old people scowl at their newfangled gizmos.

"But what could someone who never uses a computer know about computers!?!" They could know what is lost when you use a computer, and, in general, you can't get that perspective from the Hacker News crowd (or nearly anyone under 30 or so). I don't agree with everything he writes (especially not the religious stuff), but he's very wise, I think.

If intrigued, one might try "The Unsettling of America" (1977), "What Are People For?" (1990) or "Sex, Economy, Freedom, and Community" (1993).

Re:HomeKit by rwallace on Monday June 02, 2014 @10:18PM (#7837789)
That list of standards is ridiculously unreasonable and unrealistic. If we had consistently followed them, we'd still be arguing about whether to start banging the rocks together. Anything as daring as the printing press or electricity would be utterly unthinkable.

I don't know whether home automation will take off, but I think the deciding factor will be the same as it was with most of the other things we've invented since we came down from the trees: whether the benefits on the whole exceed the costs.

Re:HomeKit by noblethrasher on Monday June 02, 2014 @10:56PM (#7837912)
Well, that was largely the state of affairs for computers for a while: From 1998–2007, I could reasonably expect 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8 with respect to both desktops and laptops.

We do seem to have regressed because of the phenomena of “worse hardware through software”, and the over-dependence on cloud services.

I'm also much more skeptical that software version n is unambiguously better than version n-1, having been burned a few too many times (that's also why sites like this exists: http://www.oldversion.com/).

Re:HomeKit by Already__Taken on Monday June 02, 2014 @06:31PM (#7836910)
I can shorten that list;

1. I don't care for change, everything is terrible as long as I can pick at least one problem.

3 and 9 clearly contradict! This is garbage.

Re:HomeKit by nmrm on Monday June 02, 2014 @06:42PM (#7836964)
3 and 9 do not contradict, they just aren't universally consistent.

Something that achieves 3 without sacrificing 9 is probably better (or at least more likely to be adopted) than something that achieves 3 but sacrifices 9.

Re:HomeKit by Anderkent on Monday June 02, 2014 @06:59PM (#7837044)
No, 3 and 9 together mean you cannot ever replace something good with something better.
Re:HomeKit by nmrm on Monday June 02, 2014 @10:00PM (#7837729)
3 doesn't require that the thing replaced be good. So both 3 and 9 allow you to replace something bad with something good. I only claimed that there are examples where you can satisfy 3 and 9, not that you can always satisfy 3 and 9.

But also, I think this thread entirely misses the point and intended use-case for this list.

When you cannot satisfy all criteria, the list does not become a justification for the status quo. Instead, it is a useful mechanism for elucidating the exact conflicts which a good designer must reason through and ultimately resolve (perhaps even leading to an alternative, "win-win" or "win-less lose" solution. Or not. Either way, the list helped think things through.)

Re:HomeKit by maxerickson on Monday June 02, 2014 @11:35PM (#7838002)
3 is talking about technology.

9 is talking about aspects of people's lives.

Re:HomeKit by Anderkent on Tuesday June 03, 2014 @08:34AM (#7839709)
How is technology not an aspect of people's lives? Not to mention, some aspects of people's lives might be good, but could be better. Should they not be improved? Well, not according to 9.
Re:HomeKit by untog on Monday June 02, 2014 @09:58PM (#7837719)
But this isn't really a huge leap in technology. It's existing technology being supported by Apple. It makes adoption more likely, but still far from guaranteed.
Re:HomeKit by damian2000 on Monday June 02, 2014 @09:36PM (#7837666)
The problem is, people have been saying that about HA for the last 20 years. Home Automation has a long history of not being able to generate a large enough market.
Re:HomeKit by toomuchtodo on Monday June 02, 2014 @05:30PM (#7836557)
May I counterpoint?

I live in a 1200 sq foot condo, 1 floor, with limited natural light. Automated lighting activation via Bluetooth LE (Tasker on my Android phone) is very handy when I come home late at night, because walking through ~15 feet in the dark to a light switch isn't fun (yes, first world problem).

More importantly, my Nest thermostat. Am I lazy for changing the house temp from my bed? Most definitely. But that's not the point. I have saved quite a bit in utilities with its auto-away functionality, as well as its airwave cooling function (detects how long it can keep cooling the home from residual coolness in the air exchanger coils after the compressor has shut down).

Energy efficiency plays (Google buys Nest for $3.2 billion) turns tech companies into utility MVNOs. And almost everyone needs some form of power or HVAC.

Re:HomeKit by mturmon on Monday June 02, 2014 @07:18PM (#7837128)
Or "I'm going to bed early, turn off all the lights". Or, "I'm having a party outdoors, turn on all the exterior lights." Or, "I'm done listening to music, turn off the audio." There are lots of use cases.

But, all of this nifty tech does rely on tapping in to home infrastructure (switches and devices that understand the protocol), so it's a long haul.

These devices are wired in and have 50-year design lives. The life of these protocols seems to be significantly less than 50 years, which is a pretty big mismatch.

Yes, I'm still sore about the ~10 useless X-10 switches I put in in the 2000s. ;-)

Re:HomeKit by ghaff on Monday June 02, 2014 @07:32PM (#7837201)
I still have a bit of wireless X10 I use for a couple of rooms that never got totally rewired :-)

But you're absolutely right. It's hard to sell incrementally useful capability when it requires spending a fair bit of time and money to upgrade components that are doing a decent job today and probably will for years to come.

Case in point. Would I buy a Nest if I needed a thermostat today? Probably. Will I buy one to replace a perfectly good programmable thermostat that's already installed and working? Probably not.

Re:HomeKit by gregpilling on Tuesday June 03, 2014 @10:24AM (#7840354)
What is the best replacement for X10 stuff?
Re:HomeKit by toomuchtodo on Tuesday June 03, 2014 @02:54PM (#7842078)
Z Wave and Zigbee are the two competing standards; swing by reddit.com/r/homeautomation for more info.
Re:HomeKit by prawn on Monday June 02, 2014 @08:00PM (#7837324)
No, it won't be a huge deal initially, but incremental changes will come with time and investment in the field.

Blinds that automatically open/shut based on time of day and internal/external temperatures to prevent against heat loss during winter. I'd be keen on that as it's not something my wife ever considers. At the front of the house, we have six windows in two rooms, all with separate blind controls. What I'd give to automate the process of opening those in the morning and closing them at night...

Microwaves that switch off standby (ultimately uses more power than actually cooking something) once it learns which hours you tend to use it. Garden lighting systems, irrigation systems that can check the weather via your phone and adjust schedules if it's going to rain, etc.

Re:HomeKit by endtime on Monday June 02, 2014 @05:07PM (#7836395)
Upvoted because I agree with you, but FWIW, I think (hope) that these trivialities are foundational steps for actually interesting automation.
Re:HomeKit by pandaPower on Monday June 02, 2014 @08:11PM (#7837359)
I think that there is a real opportunity for accessibility options here. For some people verbal access to changing the air conditioning or lights or whatever might make a huge difference and the more people use it for convenience the more the price will drop for everyone.

edit: comma removal

Re:HomeKit by michaelvanham on Monday June 02, 2014 @06:10PM (#7836813)
How about turning a few lights on remotely when one is unexpectedly caught working late? Now it looks like someone is home instead of looking like a big dark burglary target.

Or maybe one might want to lock the font door from the office when one left in a hurry to get to the meeting on time?

Re:HomeKit by smackfu on Monday June 02, 2014 @07:02PM (#7837065)
It's cool if you actually replace the switches. If you don't, now you have two switches for one control, and they don't know about each other. If you do something crazy like switch off the wall switch, your fancy home automation is dead.
Re:HomeKit by bergie on Monday June 02, 2014 @07:40PM (#7837238)
...and only cool as long as everybody in your household has an iOS device
Re:HomeKit by vinhboy on Tuesday June 03, 2014 @11:23AM (#7840723)
It's one of those things where you don't know what you're missing until you try it.