You're getting downvoted probably because you're making people uncomfortable. It doesn't fit their world-view, and they will do their best to shut you down so that they don't have to face themselves on their predecided views/opinions.

People refuse knowledge because it means responsibility.

It's disappointing that you think advances in rights for women have to come at the expense of men.

I knew a feminist in high school who wanted to photocopy my draft papers so she could sign up too. Definitely not legal, but she was absolutely adamant that if men and women were to be equal, women should have to defend the country too.

Feminism is about equality, when it's done right. Unfortunately, it's been perverted into "down with the patriarchy". We call those people "Feminazis".

It's disappointing that they had to do that at all. Equality can be achieved without bashing anyone.

Unfortunately it is feminism that tells us this through their rhetoric that demonizes men and their actions of lobbying for legislation that subjugates men.

I see you've found the strawfeminists. http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

HSSSSSSSSSS!

> Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman.

Our Blood by Andrea Dworkin, 1976

It's not a strawmyn when it's based on reality. Not all feminists, not even all radical feminists espouse views like this, but they exist and to brush them under the rug impedes meaningful discourse.

Andrea Dworkin hardly represents the vast, vast majority of feminists. You're identifying an entire group with a lone, extremist, and broadly rejected voice.

I don't think anyone is denying Andrea Dworkin exists. I think people are denying that she's relevant to this discussion, except as a way to keep blaming women.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

You brought up Andrea Dworkin, not me, and you suggested she represents feminism, not me.

No, the parent comment brought up the idea that radical feminists with despicable beliefs don't exist and tried to brush them under the table. I posted one example of many and clearly said > Not all feminists, not even all radical feminists espouse views like this, but they exist

You are putting words in my mouth by saying I claimed they were representative. It's intellectually dishonest to say otherwise, though given the level of discourse you've shown elsewhere on this post it's clear I shouldn't expect any better.

This is pretty lazy. Understanding radical feminism and its context both in the 70s and today takes time, reading, and empathy. You're opting for feel-good MRA and it's boring.

I don't identify as an "MRA" nor do I think your assessment of my post as "boring" is cogent. In fact, I would consider your attempted ad-hominem lazy.

Your assumption that I'm actually opting-in to standard rules of debate rather than just making a general comment is also boring, for the same reason your other post was: I've seen it before, it's old. You aren't wrong, you're just uninformed. You should read more of what women write.

Ah, the classic "I can't make a substantive argument so I'll just dismiss you" gambit. It's a bit overplayed though.

I really have to take exception at your suggestion that I haven't read enough things written by women, because I have: from The Tale of Genji to Feminist Interpretations of Saint Augustine

Ahh it must have been straw-feminists who lobbied successfully for the Tender Years Doctrine, the Duluth Model, and VAWA? http://www.rdo-olr.uottawa.ca/index2.php?option=com_sobi2&so...

Straw-feminists that routinely lobby against equal parenting legislation? https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/20980-as-it-was...

Straw-feminists that suppress gender symmetry in domestic violence? http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denyin...

Straw-feminists that compare the life of the western woman to life in a nazi concentration camp? http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/...

Straw-feminists that claim "otherwise decent guys will rape and not even think that it’s wrong." https://web.archive.org/web/20060421031452/http://feministin...

Please point us to all the feminist action for equal _human_ rights, not just self-serving political and social policy.

Tell us all about the feminist outrage over men's suicide rates or the gender disparity in federal medical research funding?

Feminist picketing outside of family courts in protest of men's lack of custody rights?

Feminist sponsored legislation that gives men equal reproductive rights?

We'll wait... In the mean time, how about if feminists could at least let those of us actually interested in _human_ rights have a discussion without pulling the fire alarm?

"So what do we call the feminists who ..."

A parody. That one's easy.

addendum: this was teasing and perhaps a bit snarky, but there is no rational analysis in which the parents characterization is typical of feminist practice or rhetoric. Which is a very different thing from finding someone who claims the label "feminist" and espouses these views or any other.

This sort of characterization by outliers and strawmen (women?) is ridiculous, but also damaging to the possibility of reasonable discussion. Shame on you for engaging in it.

That said, it was silly of me to engage in this sort of discussion here, it's not likely to go anywhere useful. I should probably just delete this and be done with it.

Ahh, so all of those racist Aryan Nation members are just parodies, since the marketing slogan of the Aryan Nation claims their ideology to be one of "love and pride".

I call Godwin's law on your "feminism=nazism" false eqivalence

This has nothing to do with nazism, this is observing a common political strategy. The naming of "The Patriot Act" is another example.

We should judge ideologies by their rhetoric, actions, and outcomes, not their marketing slogans.

That it has nothing to do with nazism is exactly what invokes Godwin's Law.

> So what do we call the feminists who work to suppress research that shows gender symmetry in domestic violence?

> What do we call the feminists who demonize men as rapists, deadbeats, child molesters, and abusers?

> What do we call the feminists who lobby against equal parenting rights for fathers and for stripping the right to due process of those accused of domestic or sexual violence?

I'd call them non-existent.