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Re:Scheme to become two languages by Tichy on Friday August 21, 2009 @12:47PM (#777909)
Probably, but they still managed to make it far worse (generics, annotations, ...).
Re:Scheme to become two languages by modoc on Friday August 21, 2009 @01:14PM (#777974)
I'm much happier with jdk 1.5 than I was with 1.4 or 1.3 or 1.2 etc.... Not sure why you don't like the new additions. In general you don't have to use them if you don't want to.
Re:Scheme to become two languages by gloob on Saturday August 22, 2009 @02:35AM (#779098)
Not sure why you don't like the new additions. In general you don't have to use them if you don't want to.

I don't really disagree with you. That said, it's a little bit of an opt-out, in the same sense that arguing that C++ is just as clean as C because "you can avoid all the ugly weird parts if you really try" is something of an opt-out. (I'm not trying to comment on the relative merits of C++ and C (edit: or, for that matter, on Java <1.5 vs. Java >=1.5), so much as on the relative levels of simplicity of the two languages, just to make certain that's clear).

Re:Scheme to become two languages by lsd5you on Friday August 21, 2009 @01:35PM (#778026)
Neah. Generics are useful. Not perfect, but useful. They also happen to be optional.

The language evolution has been good, but too slow.

Even the platform evolution has been good, they have (and perhaps still) set the standard for many types of libraries.

My main issue is the growth of the platform (to what, 200mb?). I would like a much tighter standard library. In an ideal world, Swing, XML parsing ... etc. should be seperate, deprecated items removed and old apis redone.

Re:Scheme to become two languages by nradov on Friday August 21, 2009 @01:42PM (#778047)
200MB? The latest JRE is only about 20MB. Those libraries consume very little space.
Re:Scheme to become two languages by Tichy on Friday August 21, 2009 @02:49PM (#778178)
20 MB might just be the loader, though. I recently installed the JDK after a long pause and I was appalled at how unpleasant the process had become.
Re:Scheme to become two languages by nradov on Friday August 21, 2009 @02:55PM (#778188)
No, 20MB is the complete JSE runtime download including all libraries.
Re:Scheme to become two languages by Tichy on Friday August 21, 2009 @02:51PM (#778181)
Not so much optional - I think in modern Java projects you will be expected to use them. Also, 3rd party code will use them and won't work with your code if you don't use them.

Anyway, it is all a matter of taste.

Re:Scheme to become two languages by AlisdairO on Friday August 21, 2009 @12:55PM (#777923)
I see that the poor implementation of generics is an issue, but what's so bad about annotations?
Re:Scheme to become two languages by Tichy on Friday August 21, 2009 @01:22PM (#777998)
My main issue is that they add more complexity to the language, making it harder to learn and to understand. They also encourage even more verbosity in an already verbose language. Furthermore, the uses I have seen all seemed a bit borderline - they used to say that configuration should stay out of the code, but now it sneaked in again.
Re:Scheme to become two languages by nradov on Friday August 21, 2009 @01:39PM (#778038)
How else would you propose to make meta-information about code available at run time? Before annotations we had to put that information in separate configuration files. That ended up being more complex, and harder to learn and understand.
Re:Scheme to become two languages by Tichy on Friday August 21, 2009 @02:48PM (#778176)
I only know it in the context of Hibernate, and there are ORM frameworks in languages that don't have annotations.

The separate config files had something going for them, because it keeps the concerns distinct.