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Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by habitue on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:14PM (#7763586)
The argument isn't that it isn't a valuable process, the argument is that it's a process that produces something that is wholly unlike physical property. Information like the kind ARM produces[0] is more valuable to society as a whole the more widely it is disseminated. So an artificial monopoly pretending like information is a scarce resource is probably not the best way to compensate them for doing that kind of work.

[0] Some information, like intelligence information, is more valuable the less people have it, which is a major distinguishing feature here.

Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by wfjackson on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:23PM (#7763611)
>Information like the kind ARM produces[0] is more valuable to society as a whole the more widely it is disseminated. So an artificial monopoly pretending like information is a scarce resource is probably not the best way to compensate them for doing that kind of work.

Doing that without properly compensating ARM is like killing the goose that lays the golden egg. ARM is already trying to make a $20 smartphone. There is already a $25 FF OS smartphone.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/06/20-dollar-smartphone/

How much does ARM make from such a phone after all the physical costs are taken out? a few cents?

Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by habitue on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:30PM (#7763639)
As someone who once invested in ARM, and has looked at their balance sheets in depth: yes, it's a cent or two per phone.

Your unexamined assumption here is that copyright monopolies are the only way to compensate people for work like this. That's not the case.

Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by msbarnett on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:37PM (#7763671)
Genuinely curious: what do you think would be some other practical, achievable ways of ensuring that the people at a company like ARM get compensated for their work without "putting the force of the state behind their 'thought-property'"?
Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by habitue on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:56PM (#7763727)
We actually have a bunch of examples since there are many industries which don't have the ability to obtain copyright monopolies or patents (or either).

Here's a good list (I hope you'll excuse the libertarian source): http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Without_Intellectual_Property

People are making money today doing creating intellectual products without the benefit of copyrights and patents, and they're some of the highest margin industries out there.

Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by IBM on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:25PM (#7763619)
I don't understand your comment. How else would you compensate them when their business model is designing the processors to be licensed to others and not building it?
Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by habitue on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:35PM (#7763655)
Is the point to compensate them with their current business model so they don't have to make any changes as a company? If so, then yes, you've defined the solution into a corner here and copyright monopoly is the only way to go.

If, however, we look at the actual thing society has an interest in promoting: to get people to do the hard work of original research and engineering optimization, then we find there are lots of ways to solve that problem without granting monopolies or treating information like physical property.

Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by wfjackson on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:43PM (#7763689)
>Is the point to compensate them with their current business model so they don't have to make any changes as a company

Doesn't ARM keep coming up with new and innovative designs? Don't they have companies like Intel nipping at their heels waiting for a misstep? Isn't ARM on server an uphill battle for them they are working on?

Why do we need to shake up their business model? To what end exactly? To make smartphones a few cents cheaper than they already are?

>If, however, we look at the actual thing society has an interest in promoting: to get people to do the hard work of original research and engineering optimization, then we find there are lots of ways to solve that problem without granting monopolies or treating information like physical property.

Go on... what are some of the "lots of ways" ? I am genuinely curious.

Re:Did You Say “Intellectual Property”? It's a Seductive Mirage by habitue on Sunday May 18, 2014 @01:57PM (#7763729)
Please see my comment to a similar question above. I was apparently asking for it by not giving examples.