Are coders worth it? (2013)

Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by notduncansmith on Saturday May 17, 2014 @07:53PM (#7761558)

The salary depends a lot on where you are. Junior programmers in my area can't expect to make more than ~$40k (just below Alabama's median income). I would love to have the $80k salary that you claim "junior" programmers make (and like to consider myself closer to senior, given the options you presented). Maybe it's because I live in the wrong city, or didn't go to a reputable college, or am looking in the wrong places. My point is, it's difficult to feel privileged with a below-average income. There's something to be said for the environment: the (average quality) office chairs, the incredibly smart people I get to be around on a daily basis, having a job that allows me to prop my feet up and work off my laptop all day.

It's not something I take for granted, don't get me wrong; I just have a hard time feeling like I have it so much better than the guy who cleans the floors. Considering that I probably only make ~10-15k more per year and had to work considerably harder to get where I am, and that I have to work much harder day to day, we're probably about even.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by malvosenior on Saturday May 17, 2014 @08:42PM (#7761689)

Out of curiosity, what language do you develop in? I've only ever heard of salaries as low as what you're quoting for MS stuff.

You should demand more, our field pays more. Don't let your location hold you back. Move if you have to, but possibly switch to a different stack.

Junior devs should be making no less than 75k regardless of location and really, if you're good, 90+.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by notduncansmith on Saturday May 17, 2014 @09:14PM (#7761779)

I work as a full-stack developer and UI/UX designer, specializing in Node.js on the backend. I've been working a bit with Go lately in my free time. I also work at an agency, so that may affect my salary as compared to working on, say, a SaaS product.

Out of my own curiosity, where would I seek a 75-90k salary where the cost of living doesn't negate the increase?

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by malvosenior on Saturday May 17, 2014 @09:27PM (#7761808)

Thank you for the detail! You definitely sounds like you should be 100k+ to me.

I would say you don't even have to move (although Seattle might be a good choice), but you'd have to find remote work.

Do you have a Github and LinkedIn profile? Put Go, Node and front-end expertise on there but don't say you're looking for a new position. When the recruiters start contacting you, let them know you're open to remote work ONLY if they can get you 90k+. They can get you this. State that it HAS to be remote in your initial contact and don't waiver.

Alternatively you could spend a couple years in the Bay Area or NY and build up a great network then move back as a consultant or remote employee.

Another negotiation tip: The recruiters will ask you how much you're currently making. DON'T tell them (you can after you get 100k+ :). Tell them "I'm not currently looking for work, but if you can find me something 90k+ I would be willing to take a look". Be nice but be firm.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by sheepmullet on Sunday May 18, 2014 @12:09AM (#7762140)

I hope I don't come across as a dick but it sounds like your skills don't really match your location. I'm sure there are 10x as many .net/java roles in your area than node.js ones. Outside of a few major tech hubs the well paying jobs that will pay $70-$80k for a junior are more "boring" corporate roles.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by notduncansmith on Sunday May 18, 2014 @12:26AM (#7762175)

You don't sound dickish at all, and you're absolutely right that there are more "enterprise-y" roles here than Node. In fact, the shop I'm at now is one of probably less than 10 companies in the entire state that would hire anyone to do Node. During my time here I've racked up over 2000 hours working in Node.js alongside some very bright people, and it's a technology I feel quite bullish on. I'm always trying to learn and grow as a developer, but I feel a lot more comfortable working in technologies like Node or Go than something like Java. That said, I'm not opposed to JVM offshoots like Clojure, which I find fascinating.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by bm1362 on Sunday May 18, 2014 @12:13AM (#7762151)

From Austin, I've seen junior salaries around 75k. Cost of living is pretty low. I'm in Seattle now, where most of the companies are in the 90k-120k for junior pay. It doesn't have the same cost of living as SF and is much more reasonable.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by michaelochurch on Sunday May 18, 2014 @09:32AM (#7763012)

How is the market for machine learning engineers in Seattle? I'm strongly considering moving there circa 2015.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by bm1362 on Sunday May 18, 2014 @05:46PM (#7764552)

At Amazon, I've seen quite a few positions:

http://www.amazon.jobs/results?str=machine%20learning

Goodluck! Also, feel free to PM if you have any questions.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by michaelochurch on Sunday May 18, 2014 @07:52PM (#7764960)

You don't have an email included, and I don't think HN has a PM feature.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by greenyoda on Saturday May 17, 2014 @08:21PM (#7761631)

A $40K salary in Alabama might very well give you a higher standard of living than $80K in NYC or Silicon Valley, where housing and other necessities are very expensive (and income taxes are probably higher).

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by notduncansmith on Saturday May 17, 2014 @09:07PM (#7761767)

That's true, but he mentioned "$120k in Silicon Valley", which leads to believe the $80k applies to "places with a lower cost of living than Silicon Valley". I've looked at the numbers before and the standard of living evens out, depending on your priorities. If I live in San Francisco, I have a much shorter commute than my current 30-minute one-way drive from the suburbs - however, we'd have to double or triple our rent to maintain the same size apartment.

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Re:Are coders worth it? (2013) by ddoolin on Saturday May 17, 2014 @07:59PM (#7761576)

FWIW: I'm a junior programmer (22) and get right at the 80k mark. I'm not sure how common it is but I know my similarly-aged friends and coworkers make nearly as much as I do.

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