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Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by stinos on Monday May 12, 2014 @02:59PM (#7734724)
Since we're listing alternatives here: I setup SeaFile (http://seafile.com/) a couple of months ago and I'm loving it so far. Mainly because it has client-side encryption and allows a single client to sync with different servers and selectively choose which 'libraries' (basically directories that are under sync) to use. Typical usecase is having a personal server for personal files and another one at the office for work-related stuff.
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by ef4 on Monday May 12, 2014 @05:34PM (#7735540)
I like seafile too, but after doing some of my own review of the source (https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350) I'm not willing to trust it on the open internet.

For now I run seafile inside a private network behind a vpn. But I'd rather find an alternative with a better security story. Something from a team that can justify their cryptographic constructs in detail.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by icebraining on Monday May 12, 2014 @06:45PM (#7735838)
git-annex avoid all except (2), by simply encrypting each file using GnuPG, and applying an HMACSHA1 to the filenames.

http://git-annex.branchable.com/encryption/

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by berdario on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @10:14AM (#7738220)
I tried to use git annex assistant: I can get files to be backed-up on a server, but when doing sync between 2 different machines it has never worked (I've been doing the xmpp-setup dance multiple times, and it's especially painful due to having 2factor auth enabled on google)

I'll have to try using plain git annex from the commandline to try to understand what is going wrong (I already used it to clean some repositories that the assistant was refusing to delete)

PS: I tried it with 2 machines in the same LAN (both linux... though one of the 2 distros had a slightly older version of the git-annex package)

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by stinos on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @03:44AM (#7736939)
no doubt it would be my first choice if it had proper windows support, but last time I checked that was still lacking
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by higherpurpose on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @02:19AM (#7736746)
SHA1?
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by icebraining on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @02:21AM (#7736753)
It's configurable.

The default MAC algorithm to be applied on the filenames is HMACSHA1. A stronger one, for instance HMACSHA512, one can be chosen upon creation of the special remote with the option mac=HMACSHA512. The available MAC algorithms are HMACSHA1, HMACSHA224, HMACSHA256, HMACSHA384, and HMACSHA512.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by gioele on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @08:27AM (#7737755)
Don't worry, git-annex uses SHA1 just as a checksum, not for cryptographic purposes.
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by lugg on Monday May 12, 2014 @06:39PM (#7735809)
I dont get it, why is deduping at a chunk level important, can't it just take it as a tradeoff and dedupe at the file level, or does that have the same problems? And why exactly is deduping important for a personal use case, bandwidth is relatively cheap.

In any case, while I want security in these systems to avoid mass survey style attacks, I assume anything I put over the wire to be compromised at least potentially. I keep the kind of files that need that level of encryption on encrypted flash drives.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by enscr on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @02:07AM (#7736731)
If you are encrypting each file individually, you are still giving away the file names. Hence you use encrypted file containers. They benefit from block level deduplication. They can be large in size.
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by icebraining on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @02:12AM (#7736740)
If you are encrypting each file individually, you are still giving away the file names. Hence you use encrypted file containers.

That doesn't follow - you can solve the problem without containers, e.g. by encrypting or hashing the filenames.

Containers protect the file sizes, but they lose the ability to selectively sync certain files to certain nodes.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by enscr on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @09:03AM (#7737897)
Hashing doesn't solve the problem completely. You are still giving away information about file count, size & hierarchy.

Regarding selective sync : you'll have to organize the files logically into containers. I think even Dropbox doesn't let you sync files selectively, you have to have content separated into folders.

I'm not saying that one is better than other, just giving an example of where de-duping at block level is needed as @lugg asked.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by icebraining on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @10:02AM (#7738170)
Hashing doesn't solve the problem completely. You are still giving away information about file count, size & hierarchy.

Sure; I was just talking about the file names. You can avoid the hierarchy part by transmitting it separately from the files in a secure way, though.

Regarding selective sync : you'll have to organize the files logically into containers. I think even Dropbox doesn't let you sync files selectively, you have to have content separated into folders.

git-annex does. You can implement rules to decide what files should be synced, which should be dropped locally, etc.

For example, an MP3 player running it might have a rule such as

  filename(*.mp3) or filename(*.ogg)
and it'll only sync those files, regardless of their directories.
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by abus on Monday May 12, 2014 @09:56PM (#7736291)
Are there any issues you suspect Syncthing could suffer from?
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by noinsight on Monday May 12, 2014 @04:34PM (#7735266)
Seafile sounds promising but I'd like to see someone review the code (call me sceptical).
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by ef4 on Monday May 12, 2014 @05:36PM (#7735548)
I did, and it did not inspire confidence. https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/issues/350
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by naiyt on Monday May 12, 2014 @03:47PM (#7735002)
I've been using Seafile for a few weeks as well, and have been pretty impressed. It's been a better experience then ownCloud, for me.

Having an open source syncing service with client side encryption is great.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by nodata on Monday May 12, 2014 @03:00PM (#7734730)
I couldn't decipher what SeaFile was or how all the components fitted together, can you recommend a review or write-up?
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by mverwijs on Monday May 12, 2014 @03:07PM (#7734774)
Components overview:

https://github.com/haiwen/seafile/wiki/Seafile-server-compon...

(Installed it yesterday on a debian LXC)

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by dcalacci on Monday May 12, 2014 @03:28PM (#7734904)
I use seafile as well - I host it on my digital ocean instance and it works very well and things sync very quickly.

best part is that it does automatic, granular snapshots of my data - I've stopped using git for things like papers because I know it's backed up in seafile.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by RRRA on Monday May 12, 2014 @04:02PM (#7735089)
By client side encryption you mean you can use a friend you don't have to trust as a cross-backup system?

Also, anyone know how they compare? :)

EDIT: Login Log <- none for the free version?

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by stinos on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @03:48AM (#7736953)
you mean you can use a friend you don't have to trust as a cross-backup system

I mainly mean it has client side encryption, the consequences of that I'd like to leave open since nobody really knows or can predict all possible vulnerabilities of all possible systems. But yes basically: your friend would have a very, very hard time doing anything useful with the data or the incoming packets.

none for the free version?

not sure what you mean, I host the thing myself (serisouly, 5$ a month for a DigitalOcean box: best way ever to spend money:) but the site seems to claim there is 1GB free storage if you try their service?

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by pestaa on Monday May 12, 2014 @03:59PM (#7735078)
Very much agreed. Seafile absolutely blows ownCloud out of the water.
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by socceroos on Monday May 12, 2014 @07:25PM (#7735969)
I'm curious as to why people have had such bad ownCloud experiences? I've had it set up on my servers for 12+ months now and am really enjoying the experience. Could someone please explain further?
Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by unhammer on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @05:04AM (#7737167)
Also happy owncloud user for over a year; though i mainly use it for calendar+contacts (both synced with both phone and emacs) and auto-backups of pictures I take with my phone.

Documents and such I tend to keep in various public or private git repos; habits die hard.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by drdaeman on Tuesday May 13, 2014 @10:47AM (#7738375)
My issue with ownCloud is that it lacks partial (differential) updates. Change a bit in a file and have a whole one re-uploaded.

Also, security track combined with the implementation language scare me to the extent of not really willing to expose the whole thing to the Internet. Just being superstitious here.

Re:Syncthing: Open Source Dropbox and BitTorrent Sync Replac... by AdrianoZum on Monday May 12, 2014 @05:28PM (#7735512)
I tried Owncloud for a while and was disappointed. Ended up using Syncdocs (http://syncdocs.com) to do end-to-end encryption to Google Drive. The main advantage of this was the versioning is done by Google and fast access from anywhere.

I'll be taking a look at Seafile now, looks promising.