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Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by downandout on Friday May 09, 2014 @11:27PM (#7724379)
Medicare expenditures would in no way decrease as a result of the implementation of a BI (unless you plan to pay for BI by causing the deaths of most of our senior population, as they couldn't pay for medical services or medication on $12K). Also, tax revenue would decrease as at least a portion of the population would simply drop out of the workforce.

BI, like socialism and communism, sounds good on paper to a certain set of people. It won't work in the real world. I have always wondered why otherwise intelligent and successful people keep bringing up ideas to give others' money away, and then I recently heard casino mogul Steve Wynn's interesting explanation for it (that they believe that everything should be given to everyone, because everything has been given to them):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCitAufBvu8

Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by drewcrawford on Saturday May 10, 2014 @12:30AM (#7724494)
> as they couldn't pay for medical services or medication on $12K

While their numbers do seem a bit low, they are not off by an order of magnitude. Canada's healthcare system averages $375/month expenses across all citizens. [0]

> tax revenue would decrease as at least a portion of the population would simply drop out of the workforce.

Even if the bottom 50% of earners drop out of the workforce, this is a loss of tax revenue of 2.25% [1]. So the first-order effect of reduced tax revenue isn't meaningful.

> It won't work in the real world. I have always wondered why otherwise intelligent and successful people keep bringing up ideas

It would be one thing if there was broad empirically-based consensus that BI "won't work in the real world" but if so you have not brought that evidence with you today. It is probably best to refrain from unsourced assertions that people who disagree with you are stupid.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_heal...

[1] http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by downandout on Saturday May 10, 2014 @12:52AM (#7724533)
> Canada's healthcare system averages $375/month expenses across all citizens.

That sounds great, but that's an apples to oranges comparison. Medical care in the US is drastically more expensive than in Canada, and unless we implement single payer (which will not happen) those numbers will not come down. Therefore $12K (which also has to cover living expenses) won't come close to supporting the medical expenses of the Medicare set in the US.

Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by sanxiyn on Saturday May 10, 2014 @01:04AM (#7724561)
We are discussing fucking BI. Is BI more likely than single payer? "Medical care in US is drastically more expensive" is a problem to solve to implement proper BI, not a deficiency in BI proposal.
Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by Steko on Saturday May 10, 2014 @12:28AM (#7724490)
That is not an interesting explanation of anything, that is Steve Wynn trying to weasel out of something he said at dinner with George Clooney.
Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by rtpg on Friday May 09, 2014 @11:37PM (#7724397)
your conclusion doesn't match your statement.

BI as a supplement to wages and other resources already exists in the form of welfare and the like, its just a matter of reducing the conditions to nothing.

somebody mentioned 600 a month for BI, you could do something lower without needing to quadruple tax revenue

Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by gte910h on Saturday May 10, 2014 @11:56AM (#7725834)
600 a month BI is 7200 a year.

From the calculations above, that requires 5050*267 million more government revenue than we have, or 1.35 trillion dollars (after cutting the non-old age part of Social Security, and the welfare part).

How are you going to raise that 1.35 trillion dollars?

Also at 600 a month, we arguably cannot drop minimum wage.

Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by downandout on Friday May 09, 2014 @11:43PM (#7724408)
My conclusion does match my statement (that BI is generally a bad idea, and wouldn't cause significant decreases in other social programs).

As far as the rest of your comment, by reducing the conditions to nothing, you dramatically expand the expenditures while lowering the tax base by encouraging a portion of the population to not bother being productive. People like to say that welfare acts as a form of BI, but that is far from the truth. Most welfare programs in the US contain requirements that recipients at least look for a job, stay drug-free, etc. With BI, people that don't want to work will simply move in with each other. $12K/yr isn't really enough for 1 person to have a good life; however $60K/yr for a household of 5 with no taxes taken out comes alot closer.

Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by guelo on Saturday May 10, 2014 @12:28AM (#7724488)
How out of touch do you have to be to say that Hollywood stars are the only ones calling for some of the programs?
Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by downandout on Saturday May 10, 2014 @12:43AM (#7724517)
I didn't say that at all. The point is that people who were born lucky - parents that provided for them, or maybe they easily and quickly found success in their career etc., tend to have a world view that because things came relatively easy to them, that everything should be handed to everyone else.
Re:What is an appropriate level of Basic Income? by Steko on Saturday May 10, 2014 @12:51AM (#7724531)
That's not the actual reasoning behind redistribution, it's just a huge straw man and again an ad hominem attack on Clooney.