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Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by munin on Monday April 21, 2014 @01:02AM (#7619873)
> if a program compiles one can know that it will never crash

that is not true, you need much stronger guarantees than just typechecking gives you. you also have a large wodge of native code for the runtime that is not written in the strongly typed language.

Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by CHY872 on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:51AM (#7620320)
Ok, so in retrospect I didn't mean that for OCaml. Certainly it is true for Standard ML [1, 2, 3], or rather, the parts of the language that use the underlying native code (IO etc) are generally smaller pieces of code for which the correctness properties are hopefully more easily tested and verified. In any case, I believe my point still stands on the whole :)

[1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/teaching/1314/FoundsCS/fcs-notes.pdf [2] http://gallium.inria.fr/~fpottier/publis/fpottier-regis-gian... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_safety#Standard_ML

Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by munin on Monday April 21, 2014 @10:17AM (#7621131)
friends of mine have still segfaulted mlton-compiled SML programs. as I understand it, you need to have a bisimulation-based proof that shows equivalence in states between ML and x86, and as far as I know that just hasn't been done. until then you have the risk of a bug in some aspect of the compiler, which has happened, emitting code that produces a crash or something else bad.
Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by CHY872 on Monday April 21, 2014 @12:34PM (#7621923)
My first opportunity to whip this one out :) https://cakeml.org/popl14.pdf
Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by munin on Monday April 21, 2014 @01:02PM (#7622114)
nice!
Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by vilhelm_s on Monday April 21, 2014 @12:53PM (#7622038)
It has been done: https://cakeml.org/.
Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by sanxiyn on Monday April 21, 2014 @04:31AM (#7620281)
Does Safe Haskell guatantee enough, or do we need more?
Re:The Case for Formal Verification (2013) by munin on Monday April 21, 2014 @10:27AM (#7621177)
I don't think so, there have been bugs in ghc before, the problem would be a bug in ghc that emits code that crashes.