News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by hooande on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @06:45AM (#7591156)
This is a false equivalency. There would still be entrepreneurs if our top tax rate was twice as a high as it is now, or more. Everyone wants to get rich, and everyone believes that they need eleventy billion dollars in order to be happy. But most entrepreneurs and inventors make things because they like to make things. Most successful ventures start with a question, "Is X possible?" or "Wouldn't it be cool if...?". Some of the people who ask these questions also put a lot of focus on money because it's a convenient measuring stick for success in our society. This doesn't mean that paying slightly more in taxes would cause them to stop wondering and experimenting, though it might seem that way.

I find it hard to believe that there would be no facebook if Mark Zukcerberg was worth $15B instead of $30B, or no Apple if Steve Jobs had paid a few billion more in taxes. If money is the ultimate goal, then why are so many billionaires joining Bill Gates in giving their fortunes away?

During Eisenhower's time the top tax rate in the US was over 90%. We didn't become the Soviet Union, gravediggers didn't strike and innovation continued. I don't know if a 90% tax rate is necessarily socialist, but it wasn't the end of capitalism either. The idea that higher taxes stifle innovation is unproven and unproductive. If the super rich were willing to pay just 10% more, perhaps the super poor would have the opportunity to hold up their end of the deal as well. This real estate issue and the other symptoms of income inequality could become manageable problems instead of simmering conflicts.

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by saalweachter on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @12:23PM (#7592720)
The top tax rates also do not serve as a disincentive to all types of investment and entrepreneurship.

For instance, consider Mark Zuckerberg. By and large, Mr. Zuckerberg will owe his taxes when he decides to cash out. But why should he cash out? An entrepreneur can build a multi-billion-dollar company up from nothing, earn a comfortable salary doing it, and as long as he is reinvesting all of the business's profits and not cashing out, not pay significant taxes!

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by tracker1 on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @07:15AM (#7591218)
I think I would probably draw the line at 50% ... if more than half of what you bring in is taken away, I just feel that's too much... That said, I would probably tax everyone at 50%, nuke corporate taxes, and ensure laws that ensure disbursements from companies to shareholders (that is then taxed, without exception)... from that, I would reduce military spending, cut most social services, and cut everyone a check for the same amount each month based on the revenues/spending.

Corporate person-hood, and corporate taxes don't really make so much sense.. I'd be in favor of limiting corporations, and pushing for disbursements to the owners... Limiting corporations from holding onto unutilized and under-utilized assets and capitol. Make it work, or give it back to the shareholders/owners.

I think that these things could really simplify legal/tax structures, and reduce a lot of government bureaucracy... Some people just wouldn't work.. more power to them. Some people will want more, and there will be competition in the workforce... I'd also be in favor of either open trade, or trade sanctions with countries that don't have similar environmental protection requirements to our own. Yes, that means that smart phones may double in price, but I think actions like that would help a lot more than simply putting up military bases all over the world.

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by Shinkei on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @09:32AM (#7591672)
It sounds so simple to have a flat tax, but actually it hurts lower earners disproprotionately because they are using a higher percentage of their income for living expenses rather than luxury. In other words, 50% of 50,000 per year is more difficult to budget than 50% of 2,000,000 per year.

Plus this whole issue of 'companies returning money to shareholders' is again only favoring the rich. It will be a long time before any significant portion of my income comes from dividends and capital gains. To make money in this way, you have to have a huge amount of capital invested already. Just to prove this point, if you made a very nice 10% per year before taxes on your investments, you would have to have 100,000 invested to make an extra 10,000 per year. If you are only making 50,000 per year, that would take a 20% contribution to your pre-tax retirement account for TEN years before you reached that level of invested capital. Sure, it would happen a little faster because of compounded interest and reinvested earnings, but I think my point is clear.

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by dllthomas on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @09:45AM (#7591740)
If you read carefully, parent included a stipend ("cut everyone a check for the same amount each month based on the revenues/spending"). Flat tax plus a stipend produces a progressive overall tax rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax#Flat_tax_wi...

Edited to add: It's worth noting, though, that you can't produce every possible progressive tax rate curve with this method. It's certainly possible to prefer some curve that is unattainable this way. But a simplistic "a tax flat in dollars is regressive in utility" isn't applicable.

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by spikels on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @11:52AM (#7592456)
I always liked the basic income plus flat tax combination - simple and fair. Due to the means testing of various aid programs the tax system if often regressive and always confusing for low income earners. Exactly the opposite of what we should all want.
Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by dllthomas on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @01:00PM (#7592925)
Well, different people mean things that are too different by "fair" to really treat it as an objective quality here without being more specific. But I agree that such a system has appeal.
Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by tracker1 on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @04:33AM (#7596697)
First off, I mentioned a basic income (not by name, but implied by verbiage). Second The point of companies returning monies to share holders, is to simplify tax/business structures. The income given to shareholders as profit is then taxed at 50%.. not favoring anyone.. it's a straight across the board flat tax + basic income for every adult.

I'm in favor of a much simplified structure, applied evenly, as fairly as possible, and much smaller government needed to operate it. A lot of spending comes down to complicated bureaucracies, reducing those is a big step. Another benefit of a basic income, is it would allow the revocation of a lot of welfare and stimulus programs, and their own layers of corruption and bureaucracy.

I'm also in favor of cutting the overall defense and operations budgets by at least 2/3 ... There's a lot of ways the federal government could be much more effective, and reduce expenditures at the same time.

And although I don't know how much I feel it is the government's place, a baseline healthcare system could even be funded in a much better way than Obamacare. I tend to lean libertarian, but I'm a pragmatist. I just want solutions that are responsible, and have a chance at making things better, while avoiding as much chance for corruption and bureaucracy as possible. Not to mention reducing the footprint of the federal government, and reducing the impact of corporate protectionism along the way.

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by ahomescu1 on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @04:01PM (#7593960)
> Corporate person-hood, and corporate taxes don't really make so much sense.

Corporate personhood (as far as I understand) is required by limited liability, which makes a lot of sense to me. Separating a company's debts from the owners' debts (and preventing creditors from going after the owners of a company when it goes bankrupt) is very encouraging for new and small businesses. The debts of the company become separate from the debts of its owners. It encourages people to start businesses and take loans, not having to worry that they'd lose everything if their startup goes under (at least theoretically).

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by tracker1 on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @08:50PM (#7595310)
I mean, corporations should not be able to donate to political lobby groups, and campaigns. If an employee or shareholder wants to put their money in, so be it. Corporations should have very limited power, not treated like a person legally. You can have the protections you speak of without allowing political sway.

OMHO one of the biggest arguments for corporate personhood is they are tax paying entities... if you reduce corporations to only allow shared ownership and limited liability, while also limiting the holding of underutilized assets and capital, it would even out. I'm not talking about liability, I'm talking about holdings, taxes and political sway.

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by ahomescu1 on Tuesday April 15, 2014 @09:07PM (#7595372)
> I mean, corporations should not be able to donate to political lobby groups, and campaigns.

While I agree with the idea itself, I don't think you can prevent that realistically. In the end, it's not "corporations" that donate money, but the people in charge of those corporations. If those people (the CEOs, VPs, board members and so on) want to make a donation, they can always do so privately (and most of them certainly have the money to do it).

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by tracker1 on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @04:38AM (#7596707)
Then let them.. and that becomes public record, and a non-living entity isn't directly affecting political sway.
Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by enraged_camel on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @12:19AM (#7596093)
>>I think I would probably draw the line at 50% ... if more than half of what you bring in is taken away, I just feel that's too much...

I feel this is the heart of the issue, that people think of money and wealth as "mine" vs. "not mine." It's the whole American individualism at play, where it's you vs. everyone else, where you getting richer is a Good Thing, even if (or maybe especially if) it increases the gap between you and others.

Whereas a much healthier mindset is "mine" vs. "ours." You have money that belongs to you and you have money that belongs to your community. This community can be a neighborhood, a city, a state or even a country. Once you flip this mental switch, you realize that the taxes you pay are not really taken away from you, but rather shared with everyone in your community (of which you are a part).

Re:SF’s Housing Crisis Explained by tracker1 on Wednesday April 16, 2014 @04:37AM (#7596705)
True.. but in capitalism, if you earned something, it's yours... if you make two sandwiches for your son, does that mean you have to give one to the community? Why does the same apply to money?

I understand that taxation is necessary. I also understand that people like to keep what they earn. I draw this line at half... and I would draw that same line for the wealthiest (who bend current tax law to pay far less than half) to the poorest, who would recieve a basic income (along with everyone else) to subset the half that they earn and get to keep.