This may not pertain directly to your story, but I feel the need to explain something, as a physically impaired individual.

We, as individuals , live with certain impairments.

These impairments only handicap us when we are put into a situation where our impairment serves to hinder us in some way.

A disability occurs when our handicaps , which were caused directly by our impairments serve to effectively eliminate an ability of ours within a given environment.

Please try your best to keep the wording straight, it can end up being contextually important.

An easy way to remember : A handicap is basically the same concept as it is applied to sports, negative points which serve to reduce the chances of conquering a goal.

Here's a helpful resource : http://www.pediatrics.emory.edu/divisions/neonatology/dpc/Im...

As a handicapped individual, I hate all this stupid word play. I'm a cripple. Unless calling me something different is going to somehow make me run, climb, or dance again, then it really doesn't matter how you refer to me. Call me whatever you want, but don't refer to me by any of this flowery language, I find that far more offensive.

I'm the father of a child with autism and I agree with your sentiment. It's context and emphasis rather than just words that tell you whether someone is trying to be offensive. And trying to find offense where none is intended is asinine. On the other hand, being ignorant of the fact the some people find certain terms offensive is also fairly poor.

Most neurological conditions are far less clear cut than physical disabilities. At some point there's a very grey area between what constitutes a 'disorder' and what is deemed to be merely an aspect of one's personality. In the end, some imbalances of neurotransmitters or differences in brain development have DSM criteria and others are written off as individual quirks.

Obviously I respect that you'd like to be referred to matter-of-factly but 'disabled' or whatever is a wider demographic than just the wheelchair-bound.

The above two comments, taken together, indicate SO MUCH. For example, they show why feminism is so problematic:

Members of the same identified group do not by necessity agree on how they wish to be treated. There is no monolithic, "correct" feminism and there is no monolithic, "correct" "handicapped person."

Brilliant. Thank you for not just sitting there and keep quiet, tensenki. Good luck with your coding, etc.

I think you're on to something there.

From my observations, feminism seems to place the woman as "damaged" or "in a state of victimhood". That viewpoint seems.. wrong. Why would I see myself as lesser and try to lower others around me so I look better?

>it feels strange calling it a "handicap"

I'm not sure why. If he could perform a better job, he wouldn't have been a grocery store bagger. That he has found himself there strongly suggests that his "handicap" affects his life in such a way as we might expect.

Interesting that you are getting a negative reaction here. I want to float this controversial statement with the HN community:

Downs syndrome is a mental handicap and preventing the disease should be a goal in science.

He got downvoted for implying that only a mentally handicapped person would ever be a grocery store bagger. I used to work front line at Kroger over summer break, I know some pretty great people who still make a living that way, and I don't appreciate the insult.

Down's is already 'prevented' in many cases, as the statistics for abortion of Down's fetuses detected in utero show. Many with Down's can live rather full lives, as some have rather mild differences in mental state than neurotypical peers. Many participate in school without the need for extensive supports, and function in work situations. There is a bit of a range in the abilities of those with Down's.

There are other diseases that can be managed in a way that minimizes the impact on quality of life. It's still preferable to prevent them.

Some people don't want to do "jobs" per se. I know I'm interested in development because it's something I like doing, and I have an unfortunate liking of expensive things. Some people are genuinely content with the company of other people, and only want to work so they can spend the rest of their time with other people, and making their days better. Would you say that someone who is a checkout operator in a store because they need money to be able to do the things that they want to do (go on holidays, or go to the beach with friends and family) has a handicap because they find themselves in what you consider a menial job? I certainly wouldn't. Sure there are a lot of people who would rather be making more money, but money isn't everything for some people.

Yea, I've seen guys literally work themself's to death. They finally get the wife, buy the always buoyed yacht; and die at 55. The wife gets over the death pretty quickly because she really never knew the work horse, with all the brilliant ways to get ahead. "He was a hard worker, and had so much ambition---too bad he passed." I guess there's a happy medium to work? I'm not sure what's considered menial these days? I heard people on this site refer to Plumbers and Mechanics as examples of menial occupations, while I bet most make more money than the average computer programmer. We are in another tech bubble. I saw this in the nineties. Guy's who threw around the word menial, and thought their cushy, exciting computer related job would always be in demand. Well, the crash hit hard. They went through their savings. Didn't take a menial job, and by the time the industry started to bubble up again they were just a little to old, or rusty. They never laughed about the menial workers of the world again. The party was over. There were no more alcohol fueled pub crawls--debating nuances of programming languages. There life just stopped. It's kind of sad this industry is so youth oriented, but then again the barriers of entry to this field are not that steep--look at Jennifer. She's a Coder!

> If he could perform a better job, he wouldn't have been a grocery store bagger.

Or maybe he's enough at peace with himself that he doesn't mind being a grocery store bagger.

It's kind of telling that we look at jobs that are basically fundamental to the smooth operation of society (maybe not baggers specifically, but certainly clerks and stockers in the same store) and assume that the people doing them must be miserable and pitiable. What does that say about us, that we see the foundation-stones of our system as pathetic losers?

Or perhaps he is capable of "better" jobs but faces stigma and discrimination because of his disability?

When I retire at 45, I plan to work as a bagger at a whole foods, just for something interesting to do.

I got the idea from a bagger I met at my local whole foods. He was previously a developer and made a ton of money and retired early. So, he thought it was a fun gig.

Just something to think about next time you look down at the bagger. They may actually have more money in the bank than you. I know - the odds are low, but it just could be.

I have no idea why you're being downvoted. While it isn't my idea of an ideal retirement job, if that's what strikes your fancy then why is that a bad thing?

It's as if some people reject the possibility that one could be happy without a mansion with a 3-car garage stocked with Audis and BMWs and annual trips to the tropics on a personal yacht.

Is this a thing? An old neighbor was in a similar situation...

I think challenged may be a better description? What I appreciate about grocery stores hiring challenged workers to bag groceries is it makes me slow down. On other occasions I might help bag them myself, but I completely change my demeanor when someone challenged is helping me and I do engage in conversation. I also have a brother who is neurologically impaired.

How do you define better?

I'm currently unemployed. Does that mean that if I could get a job, I'd have one right now?

If you read the wiki article [0] they love meeting new people, but have problems forming strong relationships.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_syndrome

I would think that's a really hard thing to pin down with numbers. I'm guessing if my wife of 17 years is any indication, it is rather difficult for people to get past a certain point because of the high energy and then anxiety that comes up. But there will always be a core group of friends that will stick through the ups and downs because of how empathic and caring the person is.