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Re:The Next Mission by jamesaguilar on Thursday April 03, 2014 @07:34PM (#7527906)
> Is the idea that if we villify [homophobia] enough and those that express them, they will eventually go away?

Yes. It's been generally working with racism, sexism, classism, and a bunch of other bad -isms. The needs of oppressed groups outweigh the needs of their oppressors to express their views free of consequences.

Re:The Next Mission by PavlovsCat on Thursday April 03, 2014 @07:48PM (#7528001)
The need of the oppressed groups for revenge after they more or less won? Really? Anyone who thinks like that has none of my support. Good luck with your fight, which could have been ours.

Also, there are plenty ways of having "consequences" without outright firing the guy, when from all we know he was doing his job just fine and brought exactly zero of his views about gay marriage into it.

Re:The Next Mission by devindotcom on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:05PM (#7528138)
Who has won, and in what way? Are you suggesting gay people have "won" in some way other than a few isolated and contested areas where their relationships have, after decades of protest and activism, been acknowledged as legally equivalent to straight people's relationships?
Re:The Next Mission by PavlovsCat on Friday April 04, 2014 @07:18AM (#7530526)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)

^ notice how the article is written in the past tense.

Re:The Next Mission by wonderzombie on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:08PM (#7528154)
It's not about "winning." It's about what kind of world we want to live in. Evidently enough people don't want to live in a world where a bigot is the CEO of an organization that ostensibly espouses freedom and equality.

I use the word bigot advisedly. Anything else is sugar-coating the motivations and rationale of the anti-gay-marriage crowd— there is no basis for it which does not rest on a religious argument, in theory or in practice. And you can't actively oppose deny someone else's civil rights and claim it's not personal, or whatever.

Re:The Next Mission by PavlovsCat on Friday April 04, 2014 @07:25AM (#7530555)
You're still extrapolating mighty much from that one donation, I find it a petty witch hunt. You live in a world where your president is a mass murdering war criminal on your behalf, in your name. You live in a world where Gitmo is a thing. So much for organizations espousing freedom and equality, so much for where your tax money goes.

Compared to that, who works for Mozilla isn't really anyone's business -- don't use their products if it means so much to you, but don't think a victory was won here for anything but delusion and self-righteous pettyness.

Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @07:49PM (#7528019)
Im not sure anti same sex marriage is the same as homophobia. Is it the wrong opinion, yes. But I wouldnt say being against same sex marriage is sufficient to make someone a homophobe.
Re:The Next Mission by bronson on Thursday April 03, 2014 @07:57PM (#7528085)
As long as the government is giving exclusive benefits to married couples then, yes, being anti-same-sex-marriage is at least a little anti-gay.

It didn't have to be this way. I wish the government would get out of marriage all together. Edit: civil unions

Re:The Next Mission by reverius42 on Thursday April 03, 2014 @07:57PM (#7528084)
Oh. Would you consider being against interracial marriage sufficient to make someone a racist?
Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:07PM (#7528148)
Yeah it would make them a racist. Because its most likely hate or disgust for the other race which is causing a person to be against interracial marriage. But for same sex marriage, there are BS religious reasons to be against it, not just hatred or disgust of gays.
Re:The Next Mission by wonderzombie on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:10PM (#7528167)
The "BS" in "BS religious reasons" is the tell. There are huge swaths of the Bible the religious set is happy to set aside when it's convenient. Go read Leviticus for a start.

It says more about Christians than it does about gay people or even the Bible that they're fixated on homosexuality.

Re:The Next Mission by devindotcom on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:17PM (#7528196)
It seems to be hate or disgust whenever it suits you, but in Eich's case, you need assurance.
Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:28PM (#7528247)
No, I just dont go around assuming things.
Re:The Next Mission by chasing on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:07PM (#7528149)
> Im not sure anti same sex marriage is the same as homophobia.

Then let me clarify: It's homophobia. To be afraid that gay marriage will somehow sully "traditional" marriage? Homo. Phobia.

Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:09PM (#7528161)
> To be afraid that gay marriage will somehow sully "traditional" marriage?

How do you know thats why he's against it? Did he tell you that?

Re:The Next Mission by chasing on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:16PM (#7528192)
The conservative talking point against gay marriage is that it will somehow undermine "traditional" marriage and the culture at large. It comes from a standpoint of quite literally being afraid of homosexuals and homosexuality.

I think it's fair to assume that Brenden Eich's reasoning shares some of those features. (Or he donated that money cynically for some other reason. I suppose that's a option.)

Either way: He gave money to prevent an entire class of Californians from enjoying their rights. Which is a pretty shitty thing to do.

Re:The Next Mission by devindotcom on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:32PM (#7528274)
VisualR: what would you suggest people do instead of nonviolent protest like boycotting and public declamation? Tweet about it? Change our profile pictures? This is a serious cultural issue. We are not talking about Baskin Robbins eliminating a flavor. A major force on the Internet was going to be led by a man who clings to the belief that gay people should not have the same civil rights as straight people. That this belief is unacceptable to many should be made clear by them in the most direct and visible way possible.
Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:49PM (#7528353)
How does punishing Eich help the cause? Is it trying to scare people in to agreeing with the LGBT cause?
Re:The Next Mission by devindotcom on Thursday April 03, 2014 @09:10PM (#7528431)
It helps by removing a bigot from a position of great power, showing others that bigotry will not be quietly tolerated, even (perhaps especially) in men and women of great talent and wealth.
Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @09:27PM (#7528507)
Maybe. Or it could just anger the other side to push back harder. Education and time are the forces that will cause an LGBT victory, not these boycott games.
Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:21PM (#7528214)
Yeah, I agree. But is the boycott activism a proportional response? I think we should leave people jobs out of these things.
Re:The Next Mission by SolarNet on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:22PM (#7528220)
If he was against it because of some non-homophobic reason wouldn't he probably have shouted that from the rooftops?

Let's say he was against it because it expanded the institution of marriage (a decent idea, but I wouldn't vote against gay rights because of it). Libertarian with perhaps a misguided set of priorities (equality > smaller government), sure, bigot? No.

So it's probably because of homophobia, because if it was something else, he probably would have made that clear by now.

Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:53PM (#7528371)
What if his religion tells him, gays OK, but marriage is only for opposite sex?
Re:The Next Mission by SolarNet on Thursday April 03, 2014 @08:58PM (#7528390)
So? What if my religion said mangos shouldn't be cut before being eaten? Obviously that shouldn't apply to everyone else, that's my religion.

So at that point he's a bigot justifying it with his religion which still means he's a bigot.

Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @09:16PM (#7528460)
My point is there are degrees of badness. LGBT supporters look like bullies when they don't moderate their response to someone who disagrees with them.
Re:The Next Mission by SolarNet on Thursday April 03, 2014 @09:32PM (#7528524)
Oh so the degree of badness of supporting institutional oppression (you know, systematically removing (violating) the rights of people based on their identity through laws, etc.) is less than that of telling a company to fire someone (which the company isn't even legally bound to do), got it. /s

This right here is why tech is so white/male/straight/etc. "Oh the other people should stop being bullies and just let themselves be oppressed, the people doing the oppression aren’t the bullies, those are just their opinions, we should just let them continue to oppress people."

Let's put it this way. The LGBT community has been oppressed for basically their whole life. So yea, when given the chance, they are going to try to oppress the people who are continuing to systematically oppress them, where do you think they learned that from. If he was willing to apologize, it probably would have been fine (since when has a gay guy apologizing for being gay gotten him his right to marry someone?), the bully here is Eich, he just got called on it this time.

Re:The Next Mission by visualR on Thursday April 03, 2014 @10:09PM (#7528681)
Revenge never works.
Re:The Next Mission by SolarNet on Thursday April 03, 2014 @11:17PM (#7528998)
It isn't revenge, it's self defence, this guy still believes this, and is now making more money. It seems likely he'll do something similar again.
Re:The Next Mission by mikeash on Thursday April 03, 2014 @07:57PM (#7528078)
How could it be otherwise?
Re:The Next Mission by natural219 on Thursday April 03, 2014 @07:59PM (#7528094)
Re:The Next Mission by jamesaguilar on Thursday April 03, 2014 @09:02PM (#7528405)
It's fine that you think that, but it is at odds with the way this has been done in most other civil rights movements.