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Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by s3r3nity on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @06:16PM (#7469585)
> bottom-of-the-ethical-barrel

Again, this is silly sensationalist thinking -- companies aren't people capable of "good" or "evil" choices. If they were, I'd note that Facebook was one of the only companies NOT conspiring to deflate the wages of half of the people that visit this site.

(Note: I don't work for FB -- I just rail against silly hyperbolic thinking.)

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by vacri on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @06:31PM (#7469710)
companies aren't people capable of "good" or "evil" choices

Their directors certainly are. A friend's mother works in a high-level consultancy that is known for turning down lucrative-but-unethical projects. I've worked in a company where the CEO would always try to find a win-win, even if it cost the company financially. I've also worked in a company where the CEO/majority owner vociferously abused the directors when he wasn't allowed a vote when they were voting on his own payrise (the directors saying that it was illegal to do so). That company also played a lot of three-card monte with FDA auditors.

Companies can behave ethically; just because they're not an organism doesn't mean that they're not under the control of something that can make those decisions. A car is just a lump of matter. Can't do anything by itself. But stick a human into it, and it can do all sorts of things, from the mundane (collecting groceries) to the charitable (distributing meals) to the unethical (hit-and-run). A company is the same.

Add into this that Facebook has been shown to be openly selling fraudulent products, and it doesn't make it sound like Facebook is the innocent you're implying. Crack open youtube and search for 'veritasium facebook', there are a couple of videos - Facebook is essentially selling advertising with fake impressions.

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by DerpDerpDerp on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @06:23PM (#7469640)
Groups of people are capable of collectively "good" or "evil" choices, and we often regard collective decisions in moral terms.

I'd argue that Facebook has made a lot of decisions that exploit users in pursuit of making more money and acquiring more personal data -- and that we don't have to be happy a technology platform with a lot of promise is now tied to a company with a record of making such decisions.

I won't welcome a Facebook platform in to my life the same way I would a standalone piece of technology, precisely because of the kind of decisions made by Facebook.

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by pfraze on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @06:25PM (#7469663)
I normally agree with you, but I really believe Facebook's model - hosting people's personal life in a corporate database - is wrong, flatly wrong. It'd be wrong for anybody, but they're the most active pushers. Friend lists, personal photos, relationships, messages, even though users gave them up freely, it was wrong to take them.

IT ethics means that you use your expertise to actively protect sensitive information. They don't do that, and there can be / will be / are consequences. If anybody could have pushed an effective self-hosting platform, it's them, but they haven't.

They are at the bottom of the ethical barrel.

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by jaegerpicker on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @10:40AM (#7473676)
While I tend to agree with your ethical stand point, I think it's unfair to blame them for not pushing a self hosting platform. Without first gathering the personal info of the users they would never had the clout to push anything. They had to obtain a large level of popularity in order to push anything.
Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by pfraze on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @10:48AM (#7473746)
That's a fair point - think of all the attempts to displace them (cough diaspora). But that's also why the onus falls onto them now, right?
Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by arg01 on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @08:08PM (#7470379)
Companies may be formally structured in such a way that they effectively act in an amoral fashion and merely seek to fulfill the wishes of their shareholders.

But they are also made of some less formal structures. Groups of people that believe privacy is important will be predisposed to assume that disrespecting that tenet will affect profit and the companies operating environment later. Even if this is not the case perhaps a company gains additional political capital in some area for it's behaviour and no single product is likely to be worth the loss of that clout.

If you take factors like these into account you can judge whether a company is predisposed to create outcomes you'd say are good or bad based on it's previous actions.

As to FB and the wages I do not give them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that it wasn't them acting on some outpouring of principal but purely needing the engineers as they grow more than they needed depressed wages. This may be unfair to them but their past actions do not align well with a more generous interpretation, though give it a few years with similar incidents and I'd reevaluate in their favour(I'd love to see it but I wouldn't hold my breath).

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by na85 on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @06:43PM (#7469790)
It's really not sensationalist at all.

Facebook is run by a man who got rich on selling private data to advertisers, and then used his billions to buy all the mansions surrounding his own mansion so that he could protect his privacy.

Zuckerberg is scum and this is a sad day for any fan of the Oculus.

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by philsnow on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @12:08AM (#7471527)
to be fair, put in zuckerberg's position, I would do the exact same thing.

the last thing I would want is for my house to be surrounded by people who won bidding wars just to own property near me.

it's not like he bought all the surrounding lots and kicked the residents out; iirc he actually went out of his way to essentially set up a pseudo reverse mortgage for one older couple.

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by na85 on Thursday March 27, 2014 @03:17PM (#7482706)
>the last thing I would want is for my house to be surrounded by people who won bidding wars just to own property near me.

That's hypocrisy. He's repeatedly gone on record stating that he believes peoples' lives should be fully open and shared.

But he doesn't want his own life to be open and shared?

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by philsnow on Wednesday April 02, 2014 @05:24PM (#7519155)
I don't like the guy's company, I've never met the guy; but I don't think you're even trying, or even thinking very hard about what you're saying.
Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by vanwesson on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @07:14PM (#7470017)
>I'd note that Facebook was one of the only companies NOT conspiring to deflate the wages of half of the people that visit this site

If you're referring to the fact that it was reported yesterday that Facebook refused to participate in the "no poaching" agreement between Apple, Google, and other companies, it is worth noting that Facebook's CEO is involved in a totally different, and probably much more permanent and far-reaching strategy for suppressing engineer salaries:

http://gawker.com/mark-zuckerbergs-self-serving-immigration-...

Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by 77ko on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @07:48PM (#7470239)
Doesn't that potentially raise the salaries of all non-American engineers who might get jobs?
Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by EricDeb on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @12:24AM (#7471584)
Yes, at the expense of American engineering salaries. Not a bad thing for innovation/technology as a whole but does lower American salaries.
Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by cbr on Tuesday March 25, 2014 @08:30PM (#7470540)
If someone happens to be born in a country with worse labor opportunities, should we just say "have you tried being born in the US?" Articles like the Gawker one you link to only make sense if American workers are the only ones who matter.
Re:Facebook acquires Oculus VR by stormbrew on Wednesday March 26, 2014 @04:55AM (#7472271)
On the other hand, strict immigration policies themselves depress wages for every person on the planet who's not American. I can guarantee you there are a lot of people think American businesses that hire H1Bs are fucking heroes.