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Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by dmix on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:34PM (#7438981)
The amount of influence money has on the state is directly proportional to the amount of control the state has on the economy and justice system. Money in politics wouldn't nearly matter as much if the government didn't apply heavy-handed control to every market and courtroom around the country.

As long as power is centralized into a few politicians hands, there will always be a massive concerted effort to buy that power.

Everyone who champions for more state-intervention, this is the natural side-effect you'll have to live with. Welcome to your unintended creation. Transparency is the only possibly counter-balance I could see helping the situation, but I don't see any level of transparency being added to gov operations. The trend has been in quite the opposite direction.

Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by spikels on Thursday March 20, 2014 @06:06PM (#7439192)
You hit the nail on the head. Power corrupts and more power just leads to more corruption. In theory transparancy should help but is resisted in many ways and rarely effective in practice (e.g. FEC).

In my opinion the only real solution to government corruption is limits on government power.

Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by aaronlifshin on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:47PM (#7439055)
Very good points. In fact, transparency legislation in California failed by one vote just this week. Check out California Clean Money Campaign (who are also working with us on the hackathon event).

My point here is that the system is locked down as long as money controls it. We cannot release state control over the economy until we get money out of politics.

The corruption goes both ways: politicians depend on donor money, but to get the donor money they have to create complex legislation to extort with.

There is a great story in Republic: Lost about Al Gore and early internet regulation where the senators essentially say: "If we leave this unregulated, how will we make money off these guys?"

From where we are now, we have to work to reduce the influence of money on politics before any other reform can be approached sensibly.

[deleted]
Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by saraid216 on Thursday March 20, 2014 @05:50PM (#7439084)
dmix is roughly arguing that the existence of regulation incentivizes people to game the system by manipulating regulators, whether by il/legal, not/transparent, or other means.

He's not wrong, per se, but it's also not a relevant point when the problem becomes immediately unsolvable when you think about it a little more.

Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by livepreview on Thursday March 20, 2014 @07:27PM (#7439619)
Where does the decentralization of power in order to limit the influence of money on the state fit into your thinking?
Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by saraid216 on Thursday March 20, 2014 @08:24PM (#7439870)
I'm not really sure what your question here is; did you mean to ask dmix instead? In case it was directed at me, I'll try to sketch a response.

Generally, I think that Lessig's work in this area is laudable but misguided: that is, that the influence of money is a symptom and not the root cause he claims it to be. I really hope that he creates positive change as a result of this, but I don't have high expectations.

My belief of what the root cause is is that the citizenry is too used to keeping their heads down and don't have the mental framework to accept the offering of power that democracy is supposed to be. So, in a sense, you can limit the influence of money by decentralizing power to the extent that it is properly a democracy. I would loosely define a democracy, in this context, to be a society in which over 70% of the citizens are active participants in governance.

(That last paragraph was mostly a matter of preemptively responding to "you can't just leave us hanging" charges rather than a proper manifesto.)

Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by anigbrowl on Thursday March 20, 2014 @06:43PM (#7439394)
What do you mean by applying heavy handed control to courtrooms? You seem to be making a wholly circular argument here.
Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by cafard on Thursday March 20, 2014 @07:30PM (#7439634)
What justice system do you envision outside the state?
Re:Hack money out of politics: Democracy Hackathon (March 29... by dmix on Thursday March 20, 2014 @09:37PM (#7440125)
It doesn't have to exist outside of the state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

Whereas currently 86% of people in federal jail are there for victimless crimes:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/8558/why-we-need-prison-re...