As you can probably tell from upthread, I agree with you. I'll point out a difference between #winprog and #w00w00 though: #w00w00 had the con scene --- #w00w00 people would see each other every year at DefCon and Pumpcon and, later, CanSec. Also, a lot of these people wound up working in the same city (say, Atlanta, or Columbia MD --- I get ISS, Monkey, and w00w00 mixed up).