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Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by ghshephard on Sunday February 23, 2014 @03:59PM (#7287569)
Comcast is prepared to provide that bandwidth to its customers subject to it's fair use cap of 300 Gigabytes. What they aren't prepared to do (for better or worse) is install larger circuits to Cogent so that Cogent's customers have unblocked access to Comcast's customers.

Netflix could have held out, and made Comcast out to be the bad guy, or could have leaned on Cogent to get the circuits installed - but, in this case, they folded and just decided to pay Comcast. This will probably set a very bad precedent for them when it comes to renew those agreements in 5-10 years, or however long they will be. Maybe they are hoping for some competition to enter the US environment by then.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by jonknee on Sunday February 23, 2014 @04:08PM (#7287611)
> Netflix could have held out, and made Comcast out to be the bad guy, or could have leaned on Cogent to get the circuits installed - but, in this case, they folded and just decided to pay Comcast.

How would that work? Comcast customers by and large can't switch to another broadband provider and Netflix customers can certainly switch to another video provider (Comcast!). It's not like this is a brand new issue, Netflix has held out for a long time. The Comcast / TWC merger is what finally did it, 30M combined customers is too big to risk on a public game of net neutrality chicken.

Surely they're still working on lobbying efforts to make it illegal for a company like Comcast to simultaneously have a monopoly on selling broadband and compete with services using said broadband. It's pretty obvious at this point that internet access is a utility and it should be treated as such.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by ghshephard on Sunday February 23, 2014 @04:33PM (#7287699)
Completely agree with you here. It's time that the United States realizes that it's approach towards broadband was flawed and tries something new.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by rayiner on Sunday February 23, 2014 @04:31PM (#7287690)
Almost nowhere does Comcast actually have a monopoly on broadband.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by tod222 on Sunday February 23, 2014 @05:15PM (#7287847)
A duopoly or oligopoly isn't much better. There's still a marked lack of choice for the customer, which results in lock-in and higher prices.

The Hacker News readership includes many people capable of starting ISPs. Comcast's large profits, which have been used to fund a string of high cost acquisitions, are a juicy target for potential competitors. Yet you never see discussion of ISP startups on Hacker News because the barriers to entry protect the current carriers. This wasn't the case in the 90s, and had Hacker News existed back then ISP startups would have appeared frequently.

The issue of telecoms not having competition has been the case for years. Back in the BBS days Jack Rickard used to harp on this in Boardwatch [1] magazine. I recall him saying something like, "Two guys with a screwdriver should be able to start a phone company."

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwatch

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by fpgeek on Sunday February 23, 2014 @09:14PM (#7288743)
> This wasn't the case in the 90s, and had Hacker News existed back then ISP startups would have appeared frequently.

Indeed. The late 90s / early 2000s were the golden age of the CLEC. There were certainly pain points (like getting copper pairs provisioned), but I remember not caring that my building didn't support Comcast Internet because I had an SDSL connection from Telocity and an ADSL connection from Speakeasy.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by tracker1 on Monday February 24, 2014 @11:59AM (#7291811)
A friend of mine had a pretty nice BBS setup in the early-mid 90's... It took him a dozen requests and 2.5 years to get extra phone lines in. That was definitely a pain point.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by tracker1 on Monday February 24, 2014 @11:58AM (#7291804)
I actually knew a lot of small-mid sized ISPs that started off as BBSes... Have a T1 split for phone + data, with several phone lines, and a data pipe upstream. I used to subscribe to Boardwatch magazine as well.

That said, most were either bought out, or went under within a couple years. It was a rough time for commercial SysOps in the mid-90's... not that I really feel bad for them. Times and environments change... The BBS and art scenes are still around today, but not nearly what they were in the early-mid 90's...

I miss it a lot... since most BBSes were based in a local area, there were a lot of get togethers, and you'd meet and talk to people you wouldn't necessarily do in today's internet, which is based in interest groups.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by lawnchair_larry on Sunday February 23, 2014 @05:32PM (#7287947)
This is true if you have some antiquated definition of broadband that includes a competitor offering "up to" 896kbps while Comcast offers everything from 1 to 20+ mbps, but false for everybody else.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by res0nat0r on Sunday February 23, 2014 @08:49PM (#7288672)
Question: If Comcast is such a monopoly that everyone here keeps repeating ad nauseam, why hasn't it been broken up ATT style yet?
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by nknighthb on Sunday February 23, 2014 @09:22PM (#7288765)
AT&T was broken up into a bunch of smaller regional monopolies that did not compete with one another. (Almost a century after its founding, by the way, and decades of on-and-off litigation.)

The cable industry has evolved into a bunch of regional monopolies that do not compete with one another.

The effect of breaking Comcast up AT&T-style would be... a bunch of regional monopolies that do not compete with one another. And then, as with AT&T, proceed to consolidate via M&A into larger regional monopolies... that do not compete with one another. Same as now.

Welcome to the American telecommunications industry.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by c0ur7n3y on Monday February 24, 2014 @01:00PM (#7292249)
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by res0nat0r on Monday February 24, 2014 @03:13PM (#7293138)
That doesn't discount the fact that laying cable costs lots of money is a natural monopoly.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by fancyketchup on Monday February 24, 2014 @08:12PM (#7294532)
Wait, so in one post, you challenge HN's readership to prove that Comcast is a monopoly, and then two posts later you assert that cable is a natural monopoly. I'm confused what point you're trying to make.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by res0nat0r on Monday February 24, 2014 @09:30PM (#7294923)
Comcast is a natural monopoly, and there isn't anything wrong with that. Competitors are free right now to lay cabling to areas where Comcast already serves, they just choose not to because it isn't a smart financial decision.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by seanp2k2 on Sunday February 23, 2014 @05:10PM (#7287823)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/why-comcasttime...

""" But there's a silver lining for people who hate this deal: By the government's own standards, the Comcast—Time Warner deal should be blocked. To understand why, you have to know that there's a thing in antitrust law called the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index, or HHI. In very basic terms, the HHI is a way to measure the concentration of a given market. And the HHI is the test the government's lawyers apply if they want to see whether a proposed merger would create monopoly-like conditions. """

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by nitrogen on Sunday February 23, 2014 @04:14PM (#7287620)
What they aren't prepared to do (for better or worse) is install larger circuits to Cogent so that Cogent's customers have unblocked access to Comcast's customers.

That's totally backwards. Comcast's customers are paying for access to Cogent's customers, including Netflix.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by vidarh on Sunday February 23, 2014 @04:28PM (#7287676)
That has never been how the internet works. You pay a part of the costs, the other party pay a part of the cost. When the other side opts for a cheap, poor quality connection (like Cogent), you suffer no matter how much you pay, and it's not your ISPs fault.

It's not Comcasts responsibility if Cogent did not have peering arrangement or had paid for sufficient capacity to handle their end of the connection, that their customer was paying them to provide.

If it was, I'd love to provide Netflix connection much cheaper than Cogent. I'll provide it over my 10Mbps uplink, and blame consumers ISPs when everything falls over.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by nitrogen on Sunday February 23, 2014 @05:21PM (#7287878)
It is Comcast's responsibility because I was paying them $1xx a month to take care of it. Bulk transit bandwidth is significantly cheaper than the price I was paying, so there's no justifying the claim that both sides have to pay.
Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by MichaelGG on Sunday February 23, 2014 @07:43PM (#7288475)
Cool, let's be partners. I'll provide a service you want to access at 10Gbps, for an hour a week. I've got no connections to Comcast. I'll call up my brother, who runs a little ISP. I buy 10Gbps from him, and so have 5 other customers. You try to access my site. Packet loss ensues.

Since you've paid Comcast, they're now required to go to my brother's ISP and arrange more peering, right? Also, since you're paying, I shouldn't have to pay my brother, and he shouldn't have to pay anyone else, right?

Come to think of it, why isn't all hosting bandwidth free? Why do Azure and AWS charge for outbound bandwidth, but not inbound?

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by eggnet on Monday February 24, 2014 @04:51AM (#7289931)
Let's bring this down to earth. You're confusing transit and peering connections.

Netflix pays level3 for transit service (you pay your brother). Comcast pays level3 (your brother) for transit service. Notice how level3 is neither the source nor the destination of the traffic.

Netflix's traffic increases from, for example, 500Gbps to 1Tbps. Comcast's level3 ports fill up because netflix increased in popularity.

In general networks that pass a lot of traffic like this end up peering directly and avoiding transit costs.

Comcast has two choices. They can either pay level3 for another 500Gbps or they can transition the full 1Tbps to free peering directly with netflix. And yes, I consider it Comcast's responsibility to do one of those two things with their subscriber revenue, which, incidentally, most other ISPs in the US are doing.

Instead they are choosing option 3 which is, leverage their local access monopoly to force netflix to pay them, and protect their cable and xfinity services.

Re:Netflix Agrees to Pay Comcast to End Web Traffic Jam by nitrogen on Monday February 24, 2014 @12:52AM (#7289301)
Sure, if your brother's ISP has a 50Gbps pipe at a common peering location, and 10,000 Comcast customers all want 5Mbps video streams from his customers, Comcast should be peering with him.