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Re:Bizarre Shadowy Paper-Based Payment System Being Rolled O... by moron4hire on Tuesday February 18, 2014 @12:55PM (#7259678)
My point was that it's not written in stone anywhere that the middle class is a debtors class. People didn't used to have credit cards and car loans. Some would have mortgages, but nowhere near what we have today, and it wasn't about investing in the "value" of the home, given that there is no such thing, besides it being a roof over your head.

This system in which the middle class is by default considered the debtor class is a result of decades of manipulation.

Re:Bizarre Shadowy Paper-Based Payment System Being Rolled O... by dragontamer on Tuesday February 18, 2014 @01:43PM (#7260069)
And the middle class is free to live without credit cards, mortgages, and student loans.

Its hard to call it "manipulation"... although I'd argue it is widespread ignorance that has caused this problem. It is clear to me that swaths of people do not understand the concept of debt until it is too late. There is clearly a problem in the education system.

Too many people are getting too much into debt. Not on someone else's choice, but on their own choice.

Re:Bizarre Shadowy Paper-Based Payment System Being Rolled O... by moron4hire on Tuesday February 18, 2014 @04:02PM (#7261019)
Right, you really expect someone to pay for an 80 - 150K degree all on their own without student loans? That's usually the catalyst there. Once you graduate college, then you need to start paying off that debt. You need to get a job, pronto, and that often means buying a car to drive there.
Re:Bizarre Shadowy Paper-Based Payment System Being Rolled O... by dragontamer on Tuesday February 18, 2014 @09:39PM (#7261491)
Nope. I expect less people to get an $80,000 degree. I got a degree in engineering at a State University for $30,000. I have friends who got cheaper degrees by going to community college for two years.

There is also the option of not getting a degree at all, one which is rarely discussed. It turns out that the US Job can't subsume all of the college-level jobs anyway. A degree in Library Science is surely hard stuff, but its relevance in the modern workforce is questionable.

I dare say, its better to just get a job out of High School and start climbing the corporate ladder at Target or Costco, than to waste 4 years of your life on a dead-end degree. (And no offense to "dead-end degrees" either. Lawyers for instance, are contracting. They're currently a dead-end degree, despite the extreme difficulty and prestige associated with the field. But it is surprisingly difficult to get a job now as a fresh Law Grad IIRC).

Nevertheless, those who are $100,000+ in debt benefit from inflation. There are plenty of people in this unfortunate situation and the country should do more to support them. (the counrty should have done more to prevent them from getting into that situation... but that is another story)