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Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by raverbashing on Sunday January 26, 2014 @06:28AM (#7124780)
"In the late nineties, some of the Linux distributions were also already viable. E.g. I remember introducing SUSE Linux at my high school in ~1998, and back then it could be installed by a reasonably technical person. Which was not that much different than Windows 9x, given all the work that was usually required to install device drivers, etc."

I strongly disagree with this.

In 1998 Linux was not easy to use. Sure, KDE, etc, was nice, but to get to a minimally workable system it was hard.

I know, I did that, coincidentally in 1998 as well.

Getting the video drivers to work, very difficult. Find the right driver, install, etc

Configuring Dialup, hard. Using dialup, hard as well.

After that, sure, it was nice to startup KDE and browse the web.

Linux, as a "unix clone" was good if you had standard hardware and a permanent configuration. Then you can justify setting up wvdial like it was (and probably is today)

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by marquis on Sunday January 26, 2014 @08:24AM (#7124981)
>Linux was not easy to use

True, it took me 5 days to download MKLinux correctly via dial-up. But it worked, went back to OS9 but soon I had build a phalanx of PCs as servers and for friends, and while I used a Mac as my main computer (still to this day) I fell in love with Linux. That's a pretty powerful experience for a girl growing up on the edge of civilization. It's thanks to Linux that I consider myself a child akin to Stephenson's Diamond Age, but thanks to the Mac's friendly introduction to computing that I get could started.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by raverbashing on Sunday January 26, 2014 @08:48AM (#7125048)
It worked better probably because of the much smaller hardware variation in Macintoshes. Also, it was sponsored by Apple

And for servers it worked great, the problem was the "user friendly" part of it.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by marquis on Sunday January 26, 2014 @08:55AM (#7125058)
Right - if MKLinux hadn't of run, I might have discarded any interest in Linux for a few years, not learnt how to build my own PC boxes and stuck with Redhat (I think back then). After a successful initial experience I was ok dealing with bad display drivers et al. That's kind of my point, why I'm really glad I started with Mac: I had no-one around to guide me and powered with Mosaic (soon Netscape) and the growing access to mailing lists, I was on my way. I got more than a few non-techy friends running Linux shortly thereafter, given I could build them a machine cheaper than at the store and most of us went on to have successful technical careers in some form or another (whether in the Arts or architecture or whatever). That period of 96-2000 was, for me, made possible by the convergence of a few wonderful things that for the first time in history made it possible for an otherwise non-educated person in technology to access, and help make, the world.

I had looked at taking a few CS classes at university but the overwhelming perceived hostility towards women, or anyone not clearly 'belonging' at my science department at the time kept me away. So you can imagine just how much I love the Internet, and the Mac, and Linux. Times have changed and that's cool - I've run some coding classes since then primarily for women and everything they need is at their fingertips and my university's CS and Science department is far modernized and getting a healthy balance of women and minorities. I'm very aware that my jump into CS was made possible by a very special convergence, freedom, and surge of information.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by josefresco on Sunday January 26, 2014 @07:50AM (#7124922)
Came here to say just what you did. From 1998-200+ I installed literally hundreds of different linux OSes hoping that "this one would be the one". Sadly I spent even more countless hours finding and debugging drivers and generally failing at my attempt to find something to replace or even run alongside Windows (every geek I knew duel-booted another OS).

So yes on paper Linux had/has everything Windows does but in practice it was another story. It arguably still remains the case even today which is shocking considering how longs it's been.

Most of it is related to drivers and hardware industry support which will never happen until the other dominant players (Windows, OSX) stumble.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by muyuu on Sunday January 26, 2014 @08:44AM (#7125036)
I had no problems installing Linux since 1993, except the hardware was problematic (not supported).

In the early days, I did fine with VESA support. Then, I actively chose hardware that I knew it would work basically out of the box. I had minor problems, never a showstopper. It could be a bit cumbersome at times, that's true.

Nowadays it's a lot easier to install Linux in most computers than Windows. If you want to install a version of Windows that isn't specifically supported by the hardware, you're SOL.

Right now, the biggest problem is GPU support from AMD/ATI and nVidia, which happen to be the leaders when it comes to high-end graphics. You're either left with a partially-working Open Source solution, or with an often glitchy proprietary solution. Intel works fine but it's just for the lower end.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by eropple on Sunday January 26, 2014 @02:17PM (#7126392)
> Nowadays it's a lot easier to install Linux in most computers than Windows. If you want to install a version of Windows that isn't specifically supported by the hardware, you're SOL.

Please substantiate this. Aside from the Macintosh EFI mess, Windows will install on pretty much anything and has fallback drivers for just about everything. Its backwards support is impressive, too; my one single-boot machine is a Win7 Thinkpad A22m with a Pentium III in it.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by muyuu on Sunday January 26, 2014 @06:01PM (#7127473)
I've had a number of laptops with buggy unsupported drivers for XP. I don't have any of these here with me right now but this has happened to me with a number of relatively common models from HP and Dell, when installing XP over Vista (can't recall if Win 7 was available at the time). The company had not moved their support package images to Vista, for compatibility and security reasons - telecom company with funky email servers and a policy of installing as old and boring software as possible.

There simply was no support. The solution HP, Dell and MS would give is to "get on with the times and migrate" which wasn't possible at the time. Alternatively, buy another computer with specific XP support. Complaints were met with a "RTF EULA" where it stated that no support was guaranteed for other OS than the preinstalled one.

The solution was to buy new laptops with WinXP support (ended up costing more, since the company specifically needed serial ports and not many machines had them + WinXP support, limiting choice).

Ubuntu installed flawlessly with absolutely every feature the hardware supported.(This happened when we basically had to either find some new usage for the machines or throw them away). Much quicker than XP too, and objectively simpler as it would choose reasonable defaults instead of asking esoteric questions, making us call phone numbers or insisting in us registering anything. The single thing XP has on Ubuntu or Mint regarding installation, is that you often don't have to do it yourself. In some respects it's worse with newer MS systems as their DRM has "intensified" and OEMs ship more resilient bloatware/rootkits.

Small division within biggish company, so the process was followed by some of us, including me although I wasn't in IT.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by danieldk on Monday January 27, 2014 @03:31AM (#7129386)
Ubuntu installed flawlessly with absolutely every feature the hardware supported.

But that's not a really fair comparison. Windows Vista was GA in 2007. You wanted to install a 2001 operating system on >= 2007 hardware. If you used a 2001 Linux distribution on 2007 hardware, it wouldn't work either. Quite possibly even worse than Windows XP.

Your parent was arguing in the other direction. E.g. Windows 7 will install fine on most pre-Windows 7 hardware. In fact, on my last to non-Macs I didn't have to fetch any drivers to install Windows 7 or Windows 8. It all worked out of the box.

Of course, Linux is even better with respect to backwards compatibility. A light distribution, such as Slackware, will probably work fine on a 1998-era Pentium II. Both in that most of the hardware will still be supported and that it will run with an acceptable speed. The same won't be true for Windows 7 or 8.

Re:Apple's First Public Demonstration of the Mac, Unseen Sin... by muyuu on Monday January 27, 2014 @05:03AM (#7129601)
At the time Windows XP was still supposedly supported.