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Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by GuiA on Sunday January 19, 2014 @06:56PM (#7086678)
I like the comment on the post:

> "The kettle had caused the trip. It was no longer safe to use the kettle"

> You know enough to start designing a temp. controlled kettle, and yet you overlooked the simple (and most likely) possibility that the kettle was on the same circuit with another high draw appliance (hair dryer, electric heater, etc.) and the combination of the two resulted in the trip from overload. And that there was nothing in fact wrong with the kettle at all.

We sometimes forget that our hacker minds can be a weakness :)

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by ars on Monday January 20, 2014 @12:05AM (#7087689)
Not to mention if your kettle caused your main breaker to trip you have some serious problems in your wiring, not your kettle.

A kettle might cause a branch circuit to trip - but the whole house??? If that happens you have bigger problems than a kettle.

(Plus in the UK plugs have built in fuses should trip first. So it's pretty doubtful it was the kettle.)

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by alextingle on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:51AM (#7088575)
RCDs are quite expensive, so its common in the UK for a single RCD to cover several circuits. The most common configuration is to have two RCDs each of which cover half of the circuits. Here's a typical consumer unit...

http://www.ctm.co.uk/gallery/Electric/Electric_photo_gallery...

RCDs detect the slightest earth leak, so they are far more likely to trip than the MCB or the fuse on the plug, which only detect a sustained over-current.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by dded on Monday January 20, 2014 @07:47PM (#7092654)
Is "RCD" British for what we call "GFI" (Ground Fault Interrupt) in the US?
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by jpollock on Monday January 20, 2014 @10:20PM (#7093228)
Yes, RCD - Residual Current Device is the same thing as a GFI.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by kabouseng on Monday January 20, 2014 @02:45AM (#7088096)
An over current situation would trip the branch. A grounding issue would trip the main switch. If water came into the electric circuit causing a grounding of the current, then the main switch would trip. Nothing wrong with the house wiring.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by ars on Monday January 20, 2014 @03:31AM (#7088204)
> A grounding issue would trip the main switch. If water came into the electric circuit causing a grounding of the current, then the main switch would trip.

No it wouldn't.

You could stick the bare wires of a branch circuit in water and it wouldn't trip the main breaker.

The main breaker will trip if there is a short inside the panel (which is all but impossible unless you are working on it live - which is sometimes done). Or if you used so much electricity you simply overloaded it, but if you did that you have the wrong panel for your house (or you are running some crazy equipment - arc furnace, maybe).

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by Robin_Message on Monday January 20, 2014 @03:58AM (#7088321)
Main breakers in the UK are often RCDs, which do in fact trip in the case of grounding issues. The main breaker usually feeds into several circuit breakers.

Generally the wiring goes: mains input -> 1 or more RCDs -> several circuit breakers -> several outlets -> fuse in plug -> appliance.

So a grounding fault can take out many circuits, and many-lots of sockets.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by ars on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:34AM (#7088491)
OK, that's new to me. They really do that? One RCD for several breakers? How is the panel wired - how do you pick which breakers are on which RCD?

That must cause so many nuisance trips - doesn't seem like a good idea (kinda like the ring circuit that to this day causes trouble).

In the US you can have an RCD (called a GFCI here) in the panel, but it feeds a single branch.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by Robin_Message on Monday January 20, 2014 @05:07AM (#7088643)
I'm only going on our panel, which is perhaps slightly non-standard due to another UK electricity quirk [1], but was done by an electrician last year so is up to regulations at least.

It has a split in the bus, so there are two RCDs, one on the left with a couple of breakers and one on the right with the rest of the breakers, and a separator in the middle.

Like:

    supply in -> R-B-B | B-B-B-B-B-R <- supply in
                 C R R | R-R R R R C
    neutral   -> D-K-K | K-K-K-K-K-D <- neutral
[1] The quirk of our board is that the left hand breaker is driven by a separate supply cable from the meter, which is only turned on between midnight and 7am. In this way, we get cheaper electricity at night which is used for storage heaters and immersion water heater. However, we no longer have the storage heaters, so it doesn't really make sense. This set up is called Economy 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_7).

Also, @alextingle, I didn't know that you were meant to have two separate circuits, although that makes sense. Lots of things are required to be RCD protected in the UK, so as you say, it makes sense just to put everything behind an RCD. We don't get any nuisance trips, which I attribute to a generally higher standard of wiring, earthing etc. in the UK, although that could just be jingoism :) (I did once live in the US and some of the literally fraying wiring connected to two pin sockets with no earthing in the house I lived in scared me.)

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by alextingle on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:54AM (#7088590)
The regs in the UK say that (pretty much) every circuit must be RCD protected. But they also say that you can't use a single RCD to protect everything, because you might need power to fix whatever has tripped the RCD.

RCDs are expensive, so the most common solution is to have two RCDs, each protecting half of the circuits.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by gnaffle on Monday January 20, 2014 @05:19AM (#7088686)
Anecdotal, but I've had an one RCD installed and have only seen it trip once in about 15 years, incidentally when my old kettle broke (I could reproduce it instantly by turning the kettle on).

Newer installations will often have an the RCD integrated with the regular circuit breakers, so you get one for each branch (as well as one the covers the entire installation).

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by timthorn on Monday January 20, 2014 @05:22AM (#7088702)
We typically have a ring circuit each for upstairs plugs, downstairs plugs, upstairs lights, downstairs lights, and then perhaps some special purpose ones - oven, smoke alarms. There's a main breaker for the house, then RCDs for each circuit. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, and it's not uncommon for the appliance itself to have a fuse in its body.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by michaelt on Monday January 20, 2014 @08:30AM (#7089359)
It doesn't tend to cause many nuisance trips.

Of course, if you buy something from the store and it trips your RCD you know it's got a fault so you return it. And if something old starts tripping your RCD you know it's developed a fault, and you fix it or replace it.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by cturner on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:38AM (#7088521)
Aaah the things you learn on hacker news. I grew up in Australia, and had a trip in the UK about 12 months ago on a broken dishwasher that took out the whole house. I'd brought an electrician in (good guy but poor English) and he said it was fine. I'd kept an open curiosity about why it had behaved that way.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by DaveLond on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:01AM (#7088334)
Errr, short-circuiting to ground will cause a RCD to trip immediately - that's what they're there for. You will generally have one RCD on the entire fuse board, and then individual circuit breakers for each branch.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by ars on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:35AM (#7088500)
If that's really how they do that - one RCD for a bunch of circuits then I have to retract my words, a ground fault would cause a whole bunch of circuits to lose power.

It seems crazy to me, but if they do that, then they do that.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by icebraining on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:45AM (#7088549)
but if you did that you have the wrong panel for your house

Wrong is relative: here in Portugal we pay a fixed monthly fee that is proportional to the maximum load. Having the "right" panel may cost you more even if you use less electricity, so many people choose to carefully manage their loads instead.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by hessenwolf on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:15AM (#7088410)
Feel free to expand...
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by aaronsnoswell on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:07AM (#7088365)
Here in Australia in older houses it is very common for power to trip if too many appliances are running at the same time - not unusual at all.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by icebraining on Monday January 20, 2014 @04:42AM (#7088541)
Same here in Portugal. In our house, both the branch breaker as well as our main breaker will usually trip if we put too much load.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by Crito on Monday January 20, 2014 @03:44AM (#7088257)
Could this be a consequence of a single ring-circuit for the whole house? I am not familiar with how exactly those work with circuit breakers.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by walshemj on Monday January 20, 2014 @08:25AM (#7089339)
And why decide that after one trip - is it the kettle or the outlet you have plugged it into thats causing the problem?
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by SomeCallMeTim on Monday January 20, 2014 @02:44AM (#7088094)
> "The kettle had caused the trip. It was no longer safe to use the kettle"

If the kettle still works, then problem solved.

If the ($10) kettle is broken, then I'm going to say that it's entirely possible to consider that quality of components, design, and build may account for the difference between a $10 and a $40 kettle.

I often end up spending more on something if I have reasonable evidence it will last longer and/or perform better. And I don't write long articles about how I resent spending the "extra" money.

Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by gregory144 on Sunday January 19, 2014 @08:39PM (#7087026)
It's possible he did consider that fact and the kettle wasn't on the same circuit with another high draw appliance.
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by joshschreuder on Sunday January 19, 2014 @11:48PM (#7087636)
The author responded: "Everyone else in the house was asleep. But yes, you’re right, I have overlooked that possibility"
Re:Why Does A Good Kettle Cost $90+? by jpollock on Monday January 20, 2014 @12:34AM (#7087772)
My house had residual current devices in the main circuit board (like the bathroom socket, only centralised). That meant that when devices such as the toaster, kettle, dishwasher and exterior lights developed ground faults, they would take out half the house.

It would lead to much fun as we reset the RCD and then tried each appliance to figure out which one was faulty.