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Re:Money can buy happiness by leoedin on Sunday January 12, 2014 @11:26AM (#7046369)
The income scale is logarithmic, so the apparently linear lines that you see are actually curved. The returns in happiness per $ earned fall off significantly towards the top of the scale (which incidentally is capped at a fairly low $128,000). I don't really see how this new data contradicts the generally accepted view (mentioned in the article) that money increases happiness up to a point.
Re:Money can buy happiness by rm999 on Sunday January 12, 2014 @12:19PM (#7046564)
>I don't really see how this new data contradicts the generally accepted view (mentioned in the article) that money increases happiness up to a point.

The article shows a logarithmic trend (i.e. doubling your income increases your happiness by a fixed amount), which is a straight line on the log plot. This insinuates (if the trend continues, which is assumed from the results) that there is no point at which increased income won't make someone happier.

The traditionally-held view is that there is an income (I've heard something like 70k in the USA) where the plot should become a horizontal line, i.e. increasing your income increases your happiness by zero.

These are very different conclusions. The plot isn't really falling "significantly towards the top of the scale". Log is the correct way of looking at income, because people consider changes to their income proportionately to their current income (for example, a 5% raise to someone making 1M dollars a year is about as significant to his life as a 5% raise for someone making 100k, even though the actual additive amounts are very different).

Re:Money can buy happiness by sliverstorm on Sunday January 12, 2014 @02:37PM (#7047124)
The traditionally-held view is that there is an income (I've heard something like 70k in the USA) where the plot should become a horizontal line, i.e. increasing your income increases your happiness by zero.

This might seem like a strange view, but the notion is not that money ceases to increase happiness, but rather increased happiness costs associated with earning that increased income start to negate the gains.

Anyway, this graph is self-reported life satisfaction. We would need to examine the metric used in the studies that came up with the ~70k number to see if we can even compare the two studies.

Re:Money can buy happiness by ritchiea on Sunday January 12, 2014 @12:53PM (#7046705)
The data I've seen shows the income where happiness flattens is around 100k rather than 70k so cutting off at 128k doesn't seem high enough to disprove the established research.
Re:Money can buy happiness by pyduan on Sunday January 12, 2014 @02:15PM (#7047042)
Remember that both Easterlin's studies and the one in this article have been done in many countries and not just the US though. The $128k cap may seem limiting for the US but it is not for Nigeria or the other lower-income countries, yet they still show the same patterns.
Re:Money can buy happiness by pedrosorio on Sunday January 12, 2014 @09:23PM (#7048505)
"The $128k cap may seem limiting for the US but it is not for Nigeria or the other lower-income countries, yet they still show the same patterns."

And that's why the cap for Nigeria is at $8k...

In fact, as someone else has commented: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7047548

"According to the paper (page 13), they only look at incomes between the 10th and 90th percentiles. That's why they cut off at $128,000 for US residents"

In my opinion, ignoring data from the top 10% earners is the perfect way to get plots that seem to disprove a paradox that states "Become rich enough, and a bigger paycheque no longer leads to more happiness".

Re:Money can buy happiness by brazzy on Monday January 13, 2014 @05:42AM (#7049856)
> These are very different conclusions.

They are not; in the real world, logarithmic growth and bounded growth are essentially the same because the possibilities for income growth are severely limited, and you reach a point where any realistic increase in income cannot yield a measurable increase in happiness.

Re:Money can buy happiness by escape_goat on Sunday January 12, 2014 @02:01PM (#7047008)
I can see where you're coming from, but I also see two problems.

Firstly, you're generalizing towards the origin from a relatively high section of the graph. Leaving aside the relative happiness, a 5% increase in income is actually much more significant in someone's life when they make $10,000 a year than when they make $100,000. There are thresholds established by absolute resource requirements. This makes it dangerous to reason from the 'flat' part of the curve downwards. Relevant analogy: transistor response curve.

Secondly, insofar as income represents a portion of an absolute resource [ie to some extent], some information is obscured that would otherwise be intuitively and immediately available. It's remarkable that the money required to increase a person's happiness by one unit is, in every case, enough money that another person could share their initial happiness. A graph with a linear relation would demonstrate this as an (immediately obvious) diminishing return on a finite resource. A graph with a log relation presents a diminishing return as natural and efficient. In this way, the choice of scaling method significantly biases the meaning attributed to the data.

Re:Money can buy happiness by auctiontheory on Sunday January 12, 2014 @01:56PM (#7046988)
a 5% raise to someone making 1M dollars a year is about as significant to his life as a 5% raise for someone making 100k

Are you asserting that as fact? Where I live, someone making 100K is just getting by and not saving very much, even with the 5% raise (he certainly couldn't buy a house), whereas for someone making 1M, the extra $50K is "free" money.

Re:Money can buy happiness by btilly on Sunday January 12, 2014 @07:48PM (#7048186)
WHERE you live, or HOW you live?

I've seen many people complain about not making enough to live where they live, when I clearly see lifestyle changes that would fix the income problem, and I see people living alongside the first who make less and save more.

I don't know you. Or your life circumstances. It might not be true for you. But "$100k/year isn't enough to survive" is the kind of claim that I've learned to be automatically suspicious of.

Re:Money can buy happiness by billmalarky on Monday January 13, 2014 @01:39PM (#7052437)
I could see a family (of even 3) struggling to live a middle class lifestyle on 100K a year in the more expensive cities in America.

There's a huge difference between 100K in Tennessee vs 100k in NYC or SF.

Re:Money can buy happiness by btilly on Monday January 13, 2014 @11:13PM (#7055326)
This depends on your expectations about what a "middle class lifestyle" includes.

Let's take NYC. The fact is that in New York City, the median household income is about $50k/year. (Last year it was $50,895.) So if we define a "middle class lifestyle" as that which those in the middle can afford, well, by definition you're going to get by very well following that lifestyle while making $100k/year! Even if your household has 3 people in it.

But if you define "middle class lifestyle" according to the way you think that you peer group is living, well, I've known people making $200k+ who experience "trouble getting by".

Now I can understand making more, choosing to live better, and running into financial trouble because of it. But if you do that and blame anyone but yourself, well, I've got nothing in the way of sympathy for you.

Re:Money can buy happiness by pyduan on Sunday January 12, 2014 @01:59PM (#7047002)
This is precisely what Easterlin says: a relative increase in income has little effect on happiness past a certain point. This competing model (the one in the article) says that no, there is no saturation point and there is a logarithmic relationship between income and happiness where the effect of a %age change in income has a constant effect on happiness.
Re:Money can buy happiness by auctiontheory on Sunday January 12, 2014 @02:30PM (#7047098)
It is partly a fixed cost versus variable cost argument, although these guys don't express it that way. (And I realize that fixed isn't really "fixed.")

If you can't afford decent housing, adequate healthcare, and a good education for your kids, of course more money will buy you happiness. And in the US, the income at which you can afford those three ... is high and increasing fast.

Re:Money can buy happiness by zanny on Sunday January 12, 2014 @02:16PM (#7047043)
I imagine there is a threshold where percentile wealth increases make the ultra-rich happy again. Whenever it grants you a noticeable increase in power and influence to increase your wealth, you kind of want to maximize it to maximize power and influence.

There is just a vast gap between the point where you stop spending money for consumption and when you can start spending money for influence.

Re:Money can buy happiness by ForHackernews on Sunday January 12, 2014 @11:40AM (#7046419)
> incidentally is capped at a fairly low $128,000

Maybe they don't have data for people making more than that? There are relatively few people with incomes that high, and their time is probably valuable enough that they're disinclined to waste it filling out happiness inventories.

Re:Money can buy happiness by maratd on Sunday January 12, 2014 @02:43PM (#7047147)
> There are relatively few people with incomes that high

The chart is of household income, not individual income. There are plenty of households who break that mark.

Re:Money can buy happiness by randomdata on Sunday January 12, 2014 @03:06PM (#7047226)
If we ignore many countries where $128K+ is quite rare, at least. In the US, about 14% of the households earn that much or more. However, the breakdown is more interesting here: Only ~1% of households in the US earn between $125-130K, compared to ~5% earning between $35-40K. The groups do become quite a bit less representative as you climb the income scale.
Re:Money can buy happiness by jheriko on Sunday January 12, 2014 @12:35PM (#7046625)
> I don't really see how this new data contradicts the generally accepted view (mentioned in the article) that money increases happiness up to a point.

It doesn't - the title of the article and the interpretation provided with in is almost as misleading. They start off quickly by telling you about the 'Easterlin paradox' - that is what they have specifically found evidence against. i.e. 'more money makes you happier' is backed by evidence.

The fact that more money makes you happier does not mean that any amount of money can make you as happy as you want though...

This is not surprising - its probably common sense.

Re:Money can buy happiness by jjindev on Sunday January 12, 2014 @01:22PM (#7046839)
"that more money makes you happier does not mean that any amount of money can make you as happy as you want"

And "more money" is not always the easiest or most available "life hack."

Re:Money can buy happiness by deskglass on Sunday January 12, 2014 @04:35PM (#7047548)
According to the paper (page 13), they only look at incomes between the 10th and 90th percentiles. That's why they cut off at $128,000 for US residents.

With that said, I do think it'd be interesting to see a graph that continues past the 90th percentile.

The paper: http://www.nber.org/papers/w18992?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_mediu...

Re:Money can buy happiness by deskglass on Sunday January 12, 2014 @06:57PM (#7048036)
That link has started charging since I posted it. You can get the paper for free (legitimately) here: http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2013/...
Re:Money can buy happiness by eloff on Sunday January 12, 2014 @03:28PM (#7047317)
The graph shows a decreasing level of extra happiness per additional dollar earned, and caps out at $100k. The data here does not support the article at all, it supports the mainstream view. What a rubbish article.