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Re:Bitcoin and positive vs. normative economics by pdonis on Saturday December 28, 2013 @03:18PM (#6976303)
What's the point of a store of value if ultimately it cannot be exchanged for something else?

One can also turn this point around: what requires the store of value to be the same thing as the medium of exchange? The store of value must be convertible into the medium of exchange, but that doesn't mean they have to be the same thing. Yet Krugman blithely assumes that they must be: "To be successful, money must be both a medium of exchange and a reasonably stable store of value." He doesn't even consider the possibility of, for example, an economy based on Bitcoin as a medium of exchange and, say, gold as a store of value. For that matter, he doesn't even bother to mention that very few people actually use dollars as a store of value: people don't keep their retirement funds in cash under the mattress.

Re:Bitcoin and positive vs. normative economics by notahacker on Saturday December 28, 2013 @05:54PM (#6977039)
If Bitcoin isn't a relatively stable store of value then there is no sane reason to use it purely for exchange. If you're able to send dollars to Coinbase or MtGox and the end user is able to receive dollars from Coinbase or MtGox, chances are you can cut out the middleman and the liquidity risk by sending them direct, at similar or lower transaction costs. The equation looks a bit different if you're holding non-trivial Bitcoin balances, but you won't do that if it doesn't reliably store your value.
Re:Bitcoin and positive vs. normative economics by pdonis on Saturday December 28, 2013 @06:15PM (#6977098)
You're ignoring transactions where Bitcoin is exchanged for actual goods or services, or for non-monetary financial instruments like stocks. In such transactions Bitcoin doesn't have to be a store of value; it only has to be a medium of exchange. The same applies to traditional forms of money, which was my point.

It's true that there aren't many ways to exchange Bitcoin for actual goods or services or non-monetary financial instruments right now, but that's not due to any inherent inferiority of Bitcoin: it's due to the fact that governments and central banks have a huge incentive to either outlaw exchanges of Bitcoin for goods, services, or financial instruments like stocks, or at least impose artificial costs on such transactions that are high enough to discourage most people from making them. In other words, Bitcoin is not competing on a level playing field with other forms of money.

Re:Bitcoin and positive vs. normative economics by notahacker on Saturday December 28, 2013 @06:44PM (#6977202)
People won't accept Bitcoin for actual goods and services if they don't believe it will hold its value. Or more precisely, they will require you to pay x% more in Bitcoin (at current exchange rates) where x is a premium to account for the expected loss in value over the period they expect to hold the Bitcoins, plus a margin for risk. If that premium happens to be higher than the cost of transacting in an alternative currency, Bitcoin is useless as a means of exchange.

Personally I'd see "governments have a huge incentive to outlaw it" as a pretty major inherent inferiority in something purporting to be currency too...

Re:Bitcoin and positive vs. normative economics by pdonis on Sunday December 29, 2013 @12:06PM (#6980209)
People won't accept Bitcoin for actual goods and services if they don't believe it will hold its value.

The same applies to any type of money. Google "hyperinflation".

Also, how much of an effect this is depends on how long people expect to hold money in between transactions; see below.

they will require you to pay x% more in Bitcoin (at current exchange rates) where x is a premium to account for the expected loss in value over the period they expect to hold the Bitcoins, plus a margin for risk.

People do the same thing with dollars and other currencies based on the rate of inflation they expect, i.e., the rate at which they expect dollars to lose their value.

Also note that qualifier: "over the period they expect to hold the Bitcoins". In other words, people need enough cash to cover current expenses for some period of time; but that amount can be pretty small compared to their total wealth, and it gets smaller as technology advances and economies evolve. People used to get paid quarterly, so they needed enough cash for a full quarter's expenses. Then the payment cycle became monthly, and now many people get paid biweekly or even weekly, so they need to hold less cash to cover expenses. (More precisely, they need to hold less as a fraction of their total wealth.)

I'd see "governments have a huge incentive to outlaw it" as a pretty major inherent inferiority

It's "inherent" only in the sense that we're not likely to get rid of governments any time soon. Is that a problem with Bitcoin, or a problem with governments?

Re:Bitcoin and positive vs. normative economics by ubernostrum on Saturday December 28, 2013 @03:55PM (#6976528)
he doesn't even bother to mention that very few people actually use dollars as a store of value: people don't keep their retirement funds in cash under the mattress.

Individual people, perhaps not. But the US dollar is the most widely-held reserve currency in the world, followed by the Euro. Wikipedia states that approximately 2/3 of reserve currency holdings are dollars.

Re:Bitcoin and positive vs. normative economics by pdonis on Saturday December 28, 2013 @04:35PM (#6976723)
You're assuming that reserve currency holdings are stores of value. I'm not sure I buy that assumption, since central banks use those reserves to manipulate the monetary system in a number of ways, not to store value. Also, as far as I can tell, the total amounts in these holdings are small compared to the total amounts held in stocks, real estate, gold, and other non-monetary stores of value.