News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Warren Buffett: 2nd Stimulus Needed, Expects Longer Reces... by jerf on Thursday July 09, 2009 @02:00PM (#696362)
Yeah, but in reality, even if we accept Keynesian economics as a given (which I don't, but I will for this post), the question is not really "Which is better, do nothing or do another Keynesian stimulus?", it is "Which is better, do nothing, or let Congress write another crappy bill using Keynesian economics as cover?"

The "first" stimulus (not really first) had extremely little content that even conforms to your explanation of good stimulus spending. Thus, by Keynesian economic standards, it should have failed. It has failed so far and I see no reason under either Keynesian economics or my preferred economics to think that will change.

What will a "second" stimulus change? Will our government do an actual Keynesian stimulus, or will it pay lip service to an ideology it believes tells it to do what it wants to do anyway (always dangerous!) and just spend, spend, spend? And if your answer is the former, I ask you, on what evidence do you base this belief since all evidence seems to point against it?

Explanations of how Keynesian stimulus works are pretty irrelevant in a world where we aren't actually using them. People who think the government should cut back may be wrong in the sense that it is not optimal, but it may still be the best course that we can actually bash Congress into following. It isn't a chamber where "nuance" does very well.

I have read vast swathes of the "first" stimulus bill. I invite you to read it and come to your own conclusions about exactly how much of it is actually Keynesian. I didn't find much that was unambiguously Keynesian, much that was unambiguously not, and a lot of other things that are basically slush funds that seem pretty unlikely to go to Keynesian things.

Re:Warren Buffett: 2nd Stimulus Needed, Expects Longer Reces... by drewr on Thursday July 09, 2009 @02:26PM (#696404)
Well said. Most of the money won't be spent for another two years and what has been spent hasn't been in the private sector. If you're going to propagandize Keynes, at least have the policy match the propaganda and let's see if it actually works.

Perhaps none of it matters. All of this assumes that Congress knows what it's voting for in the first place.

"If every member pledged to not vote for it if they hadn’t read it in its entirety, I think we would have very few votes." --Stenny Hoyer, referring to a 1,500-page health-care reform bill coming up in the House (http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=50...)

How can any of this giant, sweeping legislation be any good?

Re:Warren Buffett: 2nd Stimulus Needed, Expects Longer Reces... by Locke1689 on Thursday July 09, 2009 @06:01PM (#696711)
I have read vast swathes of the "first" stimulus bill. I invite you to read it and come to your own conclusions about exactly how much of it is actually Keynesian. I didn't find much that was unambiguously Keynesian, much that was unambiguously not, and a lot of other things that are basically slush funds that seem pretty unlikely to go to Keynesian things.

Couldn't agree more. My post was an advocate of a Keynesian stimulus -- this was certainly not one. As to politics, I have had enough. The Democrats could have made a stand, but didn't. Probably because half of them don't even believe what they're saying and are just trying to get their hand in the pot. I don't know what it will take to implement some actual liberal thought, but I have a feeling it's not coming soon.