In the comments:

Tom Dale • 2 hours ago

Sorry everyone, I forgot to note that we have a separate blog post on Ember Data on the way. Don't fret! We've got many more exciting updates to share with you soon.

stefanpenner Mod mspisars • 2 hours ago

We have much planned for ember-data, it likely serves its own blog post :)

I doubt it. It's not like IE8 is dropped by Angular. If you want to use Angular with IE8, use v1.2.

Too simplistic. Yeah that's a fine solution today. But it's not fine a year from now. This has a big impact on decision-making for any project that actually matters and will therefore be around for a while.

Dropping IE8 support + the "don't worry, it's free" Dart port make me very concerned about committing to Angular for anything I might be maintaining 2 to 5 years from now.

Expecting Angular to support IE8 is highly unrealistic. Angular is innovative and different, IMO. To expect Angular to maintain support for IE8 is to expect Angular to sacrifice speed of development / innovation. Support of IE8 constrains the feature set that is possible in Angular. There's a reason Angular seems to be winning more independent/general developer mindshare than Ember, and this is the reason.

Anecdotally, I've noticed more established/larger tech companies (other than Google) using Ember, and more startups using Angular (with some exceptions like Amazon, which uses Angular). I think this is also a reason.

    If you want to use Angular with IE8, use v1.2

Right, that's the problem.

Of course, you are always welcome to stick with older versions. But given that Angular will not be following SemVer until 2.0, it seems likely that compatibility issues between the point releases will quickly isolate you from the greater Angular community.

Most folk would consider that "dropped", no?

> Edit: Also, where's Ember Data?

I'd like to hear about this too. When I tinkered with Ember (v1.0) Ember Data seems to cause most of my problems. I still like Ember but it made me wary and I'd probably avoid Ember Data if I went back to Ember.

Sorry you guys had trouble with Ember Data. Our first conception of Ember Data was that it would act as an ORM on top of JSON, and the architecture would allow developers to build adapters for many different kinds of backends.

Unfortunately, there is no JSON analog to SQL. Every existing backend forms their JSON differently, especially when you start modeling relationships. It would be like trying to build ActiveRecord if every team rolled their own query language for each new project.

We're trying to make this better in the long-term with projects like http://jsonapi.org, and https://github.com/rails-api/active_model_serializers for Rails. We'll get there someday.

In the meantime, we totally rebooted the Ember Data project to make it simple for people to customize how their apps consume JSON APIs. Most people we've talked to have been very happy about the fact that the defaults are simple to override now, and how much simpler the internals have become. We have a small amount of work left to do before we declare a 1.0 final; in the meantime, we've cut a 1.0 beta build that you can get from http://emberjs.com/builds.

Surely you guys know that the single largest barrier to using Ember is Ember-data right?

I thoroughly tested all the available frameworks this summer and I was leaning heavily towards Ember until I tried actually using it with Ember-data and it was very ugly. I looked online and there was near universal condemnation of it from what I could find. Even Discourse didn't use it! I saw this link and thought "I bet they are announcing a completely new and working ember-data" and was surprised to see it wasn't even a topic in there.

Ember-data drove me directly into the arms of Angular and I haven't looked back. I am completely stunned it wasn't your number one priority a long time ago.

I will challenge your assertion that it wasn't our number one priority. :)

See http://emberjs.com/blog/2013/05/03/ember-data-progress-updat... for the blog post that did what you requested. We've probably fixed most of the issues you hit. You should give us another try!

Old news unfortunately; I'm specifically speaking of Ember data from July / August 2013 era. It was purportedly worse before that, I don't know because I only looked at it this summer.

I understand many people don't write data centric apps and they full well find they don't need Ember-data or need a very sophisticated Ember-data but try to do anything of substance data wise and it's a nightmare.

I am glad angular (which has no data-layer) satisfies your needs :)

I was thinking the same thing... Ember works great without ember-data. In fact, I haven't used ember-data in any of my 6 ember apps.

Ya, I use ember-data when its appropriate, and not when its not.

Well, I guess there is the experience of those of us in the trenches actually working with these frameworks and large data centric applications and then there are people who want to argue semantics.

I had the same issues as well. After several hours of hacking away, I noticed that projects (like Discourse) wrote their own data layer instead of relying on Ember Data.

In the comments they say a separate post about Ember Data is forthcoming.