See, this is kind of what I'm talking about. There's a world out there in which people can say "20 grand isn't that much" with a straight face. I guess it's nice that that world exists, but it really doesn't represent the experiences of most Americans.

I should rephrase. 20 grand isn't much over the course of a few decades. It's a lot for a 20 something year old fresh out of school.

For someone in their 40s, having 20 grand available for such an investment isn't always the result of good fortune. It's a low enough sum that can be attributed merely to frugal living and smart financial decisions. It's easily the difference between packing a lunch instead of eating out every day throughout a career. It's the long term difference between driving used Hondas instead of new Hondas.

I understand there are plenty of people who don't have such choices, but I guarantee there are plenty of individuals here on HN that could squirrel away 20k a year if they really tried. Saving 20k over the next decade is well within the reach of most individuals.

This is exactly right. The parent is right that it doesn't represent the world of many Americans, but for most of them, it is their own fault. i'm sorry if that that offends anyone, but stop living beyond your means and you can save up 20k. It doesn't really matter how much you make. The key is to simply spend less than that number.

FWIW, 20k is still a big number to me, but not that big and I'm a 20 something that quit my job a few years ago to start my own business. I didn't ask any family or friends for money, instead I saved for 2 years to give myself a > 12 month emergency fund / runway[1]. I can't imagine how people would ask for a loan/gift from family rather than simply live frugally for a year or two.

[1] - my wife and i paid off ~30k in student loans, and saved a ~30k emergency fund in about 22 months making ~80k combined a year. We lived frugally so that I could quit my job and start my own business.

> ...it doesn't represent the world of many Americans, but for most of them, it is their own fault. i'm sorry if that that offends anyone, but stop living beyond your means and you can save up 20k. It doesn't really matter how much you make. The key is to simply spend less than that number.

Oh, God, this bullshit again.

When you've got two adults with no kids making 80K a year, "living frugally" and saving money is as easy as falling off a log. Now try doing that on 28K as a single parent, just for example. When you haven't eaten out in a year, clip coupons every day, get all your clothes from Goodwill, and are still only breaking even if everything goes right and the car doesn't break down and no one gets sick, "simply spend less than you make" is about as realistic as "simply grow wings and fly."

And don't try to tell me that that's a tiny minority of the population. In modern America, it's really not.

>When you've got two adults with no kids making 80K a year, "living frugally" and saving money is as easy as falling off a log.

Let's do some math. Saving 32k a year on 80 grand is not in fact as easy as falling off a log.

80k - (taxes + tithe) = 52k. we saved 32k per year, so that is 2 people living on 20k. Don't tell me it can't be done, I did it.

For single parents making 28k 20 grand is always going to be a lot of money. That's why I said most, not all. As it happens, single parents with 28k in income is not the median, not even close. There are a lot of people making a lot more than that. I was clearly not referring to the people living at the poverty line. FWIW, ~25% of America makes less than 30k[1]. The other 75% is who my comment was directed to. But hey, it's easier to be snarky than to let facts get in the way.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...

If I had squirreled away 20k over the last two decades by living frugally and packing bagged lunches to work, I don't think I would be throwing it at my nephew to spend on his startup.