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Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by rayiner on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @03:12PM (#6803852)
"Egalitarian meritocracy" is relative.

It used to be that going to Harvard was largely a measure of whether you had enough money to go to Harvard. In 1950, the acceptance rate at Harvard from elite preparatory schools was almost 90%.

Today, it's an "egalitarian meritocracy." The acceptance rate is around 5-6%. A quarter of students come from families that make below $80k, and 60% of students receive some financial aid. In other words, a household income of $80k, which is top 30% nationwide, puts you at the bottom 25% mark at Harvard. Further, 40% of students apparently come from households making over $180k (the point at which aid phases out), which puts them in the top 5% or so of households nationwide. The statistics at Princeton, Stanford, etc, aren't any different.

People in the start-up world talk about "egalitarian meritocracy" in the same breath as they say they give explicit preference to kids coming out of Stanford, a place where the median person is from the upper middle class. It's true in a purely relative sense. It's very meritocratic compared to how things were historically, and how things still are in many parts of the world.

That is not to say that these institutions could be appreciably more meritocratic by their own efforts. Rather, when talking about whether a field is "meritocratic" you can't ignore the fact that class and income-based sorting takes place at a much earlier stage in the pipeline.

Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by natrius on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @07:19PM (#6805310)
If merit correlates with the ability to make money and merit is heritable, you'd expect those with merit to come from families with money. Top schools and our industry are probably far from pure meritocracies, but that data doesn't prove (or even strongly suggest) it.
Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by amirmc on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @07:30PM (#6805357)
> "If merit correlates with the ability to make money and merit is heritable..."

In the UK this was called being of 'good breeding'. It's no more true now than it was back then. Bear in mind that money is also heritable.

Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by natrius on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @07:37PM (#6805395)
Your claim that it isn't true is nice and all, but actual evidence that it isn't true would be better.
Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @08:17PM (#6805557)
No, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you're asserting that entire family lines are genetically (not just by environment) predisposed to success at business, you're the one who needs to back that up with facts.
Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by Brakenshire on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @08:01PM (#6805501)
Just to clarify, you're asking him to prove that the rich aren't genetically superior to the poor?
Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by natrius on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @08:16PM (#6805554)
To quote myself: "If merit correlates with the ability to make money and merit is heritable, you'd expect those with merit to come from families with money."

Is my logic incorrect? Does merit not correlate with the ability to make money? Is merit not heritable? None of those questions have been answered, but we did get to see some good ad hominem reasoning.

Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @12:47AM (#6806663)
> Is my logic incorrect? Does merit not correlate with the ability to make money? Is merit not heritable?

You're using the word "merit" in an impossibly vague and poorly-defined way. You might as well say that having a sweet tattoo is a merit when picking up dudes/ladies, and merit is heritable, therefore sweet tattoos are heritable.

And, again, you're the one making extraordinary claims, so you're the one who needs to provide extraordinary evidence. I would genuinely love to see it.

Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by shubb on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @09:08PM (#6805755)
You'd have to define merit. For instance, on the one hand 'general intelligence' has been shown to be heritable (via adopted twin studies), but on the other, 'general intelligence' scores have increased massively in Africa as schooling becomes more widespread. So, is general intelligence heritable? Do our tests for intelligence really measure how much like a middle class European you are?

These are interesting academic questions, but I wonder if you'd agree with this - having access to 5MM in no questions asked family funding is more useful than 50 extra IQ points, because you can always hire clever people.

Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by menocchio on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @09:08PM (#6805757)
Is there any difference between the ability to make money and "merit" in this discussion? There definitely is a difference in the world, but in this discussion, you seem to be conflating them.
Re:Friends and Family Funding and Why I'm Dreading Thanksgiving by grey-area on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @01:20AM (#6806761)
The ability to make money is also strongly related to how much money (and the advantages that go with it) you start life with.