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Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by EGreg on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @01:17PM (#6803041)
Sadly I read this as a precursor to shortages in water, fish and fruits/vegetables that are coming. The populations of monarch butterflies, bees and other insects are dropping like a stone year over year. The fish near asia's costs are disappearing. The culprits include pesticides, overfarming, overfishing, and pollution. I am not even as worried about the garbage anymore -- scandinavian countries have figured out ways to burn the garbage and "contain" the waste gases. However, the main problem of capitalism is the numerous externalities that are exploited until it's too late to fix. It's not just global warming. It's raping the ecosystems for profit. No futures are going to save us from that. We need sustainable practices but I really don't see a way that'll happen at this point.
Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by TrainedMonkey on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @01:28PM (#6803127)
Too fatalistic. In 19th century they predicted that Earth can't sustain population over 1 billion. In comes oil and agricultural revolution. I agree what we are doing with ecosystem in general is a crime, but it won't kill us. At least not anytime soon.
Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by EGreg on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @01:34PM (#6803176)
Just because advances were able to stave off collapse and allow billions of people to consume resources at an ever greater rate does not mean that the same can be done with the effects of overfarming, overfishing, and pollution. The fallacy is thinking "since we did it once we can always continue doing it." The probability exponentially rises that you can't, since this is basically the same as the probability of always succeeding in time to avert a disaster.

Actually garbage / messing up ecosystems is a different type of problem than obtaining resources. It is somewhat related to the second law of thermodynamics. Once you introduce so much entropy into a system the genie is out of the bottle.of course this isn't exactly thermodynamics but I can say it this way -- putting humpty dumpty together again is different than figuring out how to make humpty give you more food for decades.

Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by TrainedMonkey on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @02:32PM (#6803571)
I really agree with you on the point that we are doing all those things. I am a fan of the http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/post-index/ blog.

What am I arguing for - that while we do consume more resources, progress is exponential as well. For example if we seriously begin to run out of fossil fuels, amount of effort that is put into other energy sources would increase by order of magnitude and solution will be found. It might not be right away, it might not be silver bullet, but when push comes to shove and there are no alternatives, human ingenuity is frightening.

In the end progress stacks multiplicatively - you add great battery technology to great energy generation technology and you got more than sum of the parts. So more people there are doing research - faster it goes.

This point is only true from certain point of view. Consider genius starting from nill, how far could he take technology within his lifetime? Electricity, probably. Microprocessors and genetics, probably not. Now consider million of people working, each discovery builds on an earlier one, each tool makes other people researching more efficient or enables them to make new discoveries. Now think about multiple generations of people building discoveries on top of each other while sharing information.

Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by Spooky23 on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @01:41PM (#6803231)
I disagree -- we leave an impact behind, but I've also seen terribly polluted areas being successfully remediated. So where there's a will, there's a way.
Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by tmp123415 on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @04:10PM (#6804230)
Try to imagine that this is the stock market: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Populatio...
Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by xenonite on Tuesday November 26, 2013 @03:17PM (#6803887)
Yes, it is true that the modern agriculture was enabled through abundance of oil.

But that leads to a big problem as soon as the oil reserves diminish.

How should one not be fatalistic then?

Re:Farming hard drives: 2 years and $1M later by EGreg on Thursday November 28, 2013 @02:18PM (#6815996)
How was modern agriculture enabled by an abundance of oil?