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Re:How to launder Bitcoins by hershel on Saturday November 23, 2013 @05:59PM (#6787820)
How do you implement anonymous peer discovery against someone who can tap the whole internet ?
Re:How to launder Bitcoins by oleganza on Saturday November 23, 2013 @06:05PM (#6787843)
Tor works somehow and NSA admits that it's a pain in the ass even for them. When someone targets you specifically, you have little chances, but when the whole network routinely mixes coins it's much easier to hide in the woods.
Re:How to launder Bitcoins by hershel on Saturday November 23, 2013 @06:13PM (#6787858)
Does tor conceal the fact that you're using TOR, i.e. peer discovery ? because i got the impression it didn't , that it only did conceal end to end links.
Re:How to launder Bitcoins by finnw on Sunday November 24, 2013 @01:54PM (#6790570)
Re:How to launder Bitcoins by daurnimator on Sunday November 24, 2013 @09:11AM (#6789636)
It doesn't explicitly say if you are the originator vs just some node on the way.

If you run a tor relay you can hide your own traffic in the noise.

Re:How to launder Bitcoins by dllthomas on Sunday November 24, 2013 @01:13PM (#6790416)
"If you run a tor relay you can hide your own traffic in the noise."

Assuming you don't have way more traffic than noise.

Re:How to launder Bitcoins by JSZZHlmumeUE on Saturday November 23, 2013 @06:43PM (#6787951)
Is that really true?

I believe a global passive adversary can easily use timing attacks to deanonymize tor.

Re:How to launder Bitcoins by oleganza on Saturday November 23, 2013 @07:03PM (#6788004)
I'm not an expert in Tor. In one of Snowden's documents NSA admitted that Tor is hard to infiltrate even for them.

I myself don't want to live in a world where you need to actively hide from huge adversaries. I'd prefer a more careless world with smaller adversaries. Hopefully, widespread adoption of Bitcoin will take a lot of power from governments, so we won't have massive money wasting TLAs that create misery all around the world.

Edit: I meant "don't want to live", not "don't live".

Re:How to launder Bitcoins by JSZZHlmumeUE on Saturday November 23, 2013 @08:24PM (#6788242)
I interpreted the NSA documents to mean that Tor is harder than no-Tor. They already know who you are if you don't use Tor, but if you do, they probably have to do some analysis to figure it out.

Let's work this out though. What do we know about the NSA programs?

1. They collect metadata on packets originating from computers connected to pretty much all the US ISPs and many other countries' ISPs.

2. The list of Tor entry and exit nodes is public and you can bet your ass the NSA knows what this list is at all points in their logging history.

3. Most websites are based in the US, and so it's highly likely that the paths from the Tor exit nodes to these websites have some intermediate point on which traffic is logged by the NSA.

4. The NSA has access to a large training dataset of how traffic entering and leaving the Tor network looks because a whole bunch of federal authorities use Tor.

Given 1-4, I think it's likely trivial for the NSA to train a learning algorithm that will correlate packets leaving a Tor exit node with those entering an entry node.

They probably can't do this all the time because it is more expensive than just a database lookup like in the unencrypted case, but it seems me to that if they had the motivation to get you, it wouldn't be too hard for them.