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Re:America's underground market for adopted children by rdtsc on Saturday November 23, 2013 @04:10PM (#6787448)
There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink.

So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in the park, playing baseball outside on the front lawn, going to football practice and all the nice stuff people see on TV.

From there it moves on to lies. Overseas adoption agencies can be very shady. They want to close the deal. They will hide and paper over medical histories.

Then once a child with severe psychological issues (some which manifest themselves 6 or more months later only), become apparent. The despair starts to take hold. Then someone knows someone who heard about his online "marketplace" and so on. It puts an idea in their head.

Then, a loophole in the law is used. The idea behind having laws to transfer guardianship is to get kids to stay with family members and to keep them out of trouble if say immediate parents create an unsafe environment. Unfortunately that same provision the way it is written allow pretty quick transfer of guardianship and it is exploited in this case.

I would want to believe some of these children end up in home that try to help them, parents who know how to handle such issues better, but unfortunately quite often that is a market for predators looking for victim. The article has a few disturbing details on that, I won't reiterate here.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by x0x0 on Saturday November 23, 2013 @06:32PM (#6787916)
It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents.

The article also emphasizes that the US government, both federal and state, offers virtually no help to the parents and highlights a case where the parents where threatened with prosecution because they couldn't handle a child that had physically hurt one of their other children.

There is plenty of blame to go around, unfortunately, but it really highlights the almost complete lack of mental health care available in the US and the lack of help for parents who have very damaged children, whether adopted or not.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by grahamburger on Saturday November 23, 2013 @07:13PM (#6788034)
My parents adopted my sister from Russia about 20 years ago. At the time, Russian law only allowed foreign adoptions if the child had a physical or mental disability. My sister had a crossed eye, that was sufficient to allow her out of the country. She is now 22 years old, going to college, and living a happy, healthy life. Some friends of my parents adopted two children from the same orphanage, a brother and sister. The brother had serious issues - trying to kill his parents and run away at 6 years old type thing. They eventually placed him in the home of parents with no other children who were looking for a child like that to care for, I lost track of the story after that. The sister is also leading a normal, ostensibly happy life, though.
Re:America's underground market for adopted children by marquis on Sunday November 24, 2013 @01:08AM (#6788882)
There is an incredible story of this nature on This American Life (this episode is very hard for parents to listen to, but very beautiful)

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/317/u...

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by hosh on Saturday November 23, 2013 @08:10PM (#6788207)
Yeah, it's the kind of thing that requires almost all of one's attention on.
Re:America's underground market for adopted children by enko on Saturday November 23, 2013 @10:02PM (#6788506)
> China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents

About 2 years ago I was watching a documentary about china-to-america adoptions on japanese television. While the point was never explicitly raised, the viewer could not help but notice that most or all of the children up for adoption - no interested chinese parents having being found - were, and there's no nice way to say this, quite physically unattractive, developmentally challenged, or both.

The program showed American couples arriving to claim their new family member and I was struck by how unwitting they seemed. I got the impression they simply did not have enough experience with asian children to realise that their adoptive child had, to put it brutally, a pretty poor genotype, with a host of physical and behavioural ramifications.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by cfjedimaster on Sunday November 24, 2013 @03:37PM (#6791003)
I'm currently in China now adopting my fourth child. I would not agree with this comment, although obviously I'm biased. When you adopt you have the choice between accepting a child that is healthy and one with special needs. Sometimes these needs are severe, sometimes minor. If you accept a child with special needs, the wait for placement can be much quicker. That is what we did and our child has a minor issue that can be corrected with cosmetic-level surgery. In my opinion, that is nothing. But to be clear, there are perfectly healthy children open for adoption as well.

I've seen multiple people now talk about how unprepared the adoptive parents seemed to be. From my view, this is the minority. We are currently at the end of our stay and are at a hotel with maybe 10-15 other families. Every one we've spoken to were very prepared and knew what they were getting into.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by enko on Sunday November 24, 2013 @10:38PM (#6792355)
Well, I'd certainly never pretend to have the first-hand experience you have! I was only reporting my impressions from a TV documentary, 2 years ago. I don't even remember which area it was, or the program's name. You obviously seem to know what you're doing; maybe my impressions were incorrect, or the program spun it that way.

As for the kids - don't get me wrong, plenty were healthy; but they did not conform to normal asian notions of physical attractiveness. The unavoidable conclusion was that the chinese adoptive parents, who had first choice, cared greatly about this factor, whereas the americans either couldn't tell or didn't care.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by rdtsc on Saturday November 23, 2013 @10:17PM (#6788547)
> It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents.

Yes they would lie. Shortcuts are taken at every step, bribes are paid. [Well I speak about the situation 10 years ago]. So some shadiness and cutting corners happens form both ends. American parents know they are paying bribes and cutting corners in the "process". I know of a case 10 years ago. They snuck the baby out of Russia by bribing. Bribed officials and people all through the chain. I was told there would not be another way. That child turnout to have issues. Not as severe but it sure put a tremendous strain on that family.

Anyway back to lies. I don't know if Russia or those other countries have laws to only give severely challenged kids to US parents. I think many orphanages do that individually because they think those children would have a better chance at a good life in America. Americans (at least a decade ago, when I was able to better compare) were seen as having unlimited resources and big hearts. They were the only ones who would adopt children with those issues. And by enlarge American families felt (feel?) the same, they feel they can provide and take care of a child with special needs. Some are aware of what they are getting into but many, don't but think they can handle it. That is when it becomes very dangerous.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by rdl on Saturday November 23, 2013 @09:55PM (#6788487)
Lack of provenance information makes me wary of adopting cats from the SPCA (instead, I'm going to a breeder I know and adopting a retired show cat, or possibly kitten from that breeder). My friends have adopted pets which/who turned out to have massive unreported health problems, and now have high expenses and a fairly non functional or labor intensive pet.

Children would be vastly worse, I'm sure.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by silencio on Saturday November 23, 2013 @10:18PM (#6788548)
Which SPCA were you looking into?

When I went to go adopt a cat with my fiancé, the SF SPCA were so upfront about known problems with the cats they had that I was surprised because it wasn't something I had really considered. We ended up adopting a cat from SF Animal Care & Control in the end since the SPCA had no more younger-than-5-years cats to adopt that day. SF ACC (and I assume SF SPCA too) not only test for health and behavioral issues before even making pets available for adoption, but also keep track of day to day behavior and are upfront about everything they found out while they've had the cat. It wouldn't be in anyone's benefit to make someone adopt a pet without learning of major, discoverable problems anyway, since the cats would be back for adoption soon if it was that bad.

Anyway, we found the sweetest 2 year old cat that had been abandoned by her owner that had nothing bad about her except that she doesn't like other cats and that she had been around at the shelter for a couple months because nobody wanted an "older" cat to adopt. She loves to just sit around and preen herself, and occasionally knocks our mice over or sits in front of our computers or on our laptops asking for treats. Life is so much better with her around, no idea what we would have done without her or with a different cat, and we were also of the "we really want to get kittens, maybe we should check breeders" mindset thankfully changed by an SPCA volunteer that gave us a heads up about the ACC shelter across the street. Maybe you can find a cat like her too instead of getting a kitten from a breeder :)

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by rdl on Saturday November 23, 2013 @10:24PM (#6788563)
The really bad cases were in Singapore. I'm probably waiting until I buy/rent a house in WA next year, so maybe up in Bellevue I'll look, but one of the world's top 5 Russian Blue breeders is in Hillsborough, and she offered one of her retired show cats, which might be better than a kitten. The advantage of a kitten is I want to train the cat to be comfortable in cars, as well as (ideally) to use a toilet. Show cats tend to be used to travel, at least.
Re:America's underground market for adopted children by pyre on Sunday November 24, 2013 @02:17AM (#6789001)
IIRC, cats that are trained to use a toilet have issues when they get older. You might want to look into that.
Re:America's underground market for adopted children by rdl on Thursday December 05, 2013 @07:53PM (#6858586)
Yeah, on further research, I think I'll just get a super-automatic litter box. It's not just when they're older; it's when they're at a vet, in transit, etc.
Re:America's underground market for adopted children by mturmon on Sunday November 24, 2013 @01:33AM (#6788923)
I have no experience with cats, but a lot of experience with adopting dogs from the SPCA (Pasadena) or private shelters. I.e., mutts from the pound. If you know something about pets, and/or the shelter has expertise with adoption, you should be able to adopt a dog who would be a good match for you or your family.

You should be able to set aside a few months to deal with any issues the dog has, like anxiety or other behavioral issues, and to dial in the diet and routines like walks. The shelter should be able to help with some of this. Taking this time is similar to dealing with a puppy.

I know you wrote about cats, but I felt a need to chime in about adopting companion animals from a shelter instead of going to a breeder. Adoption from a shelter is a perfectly good option, and it's a way to do some animal a favor, maybe saving its life.

Re:America's underground market for adopted children by ricardobeat on Saturday November 23, 2013 @05:16PM (#6787655)
This is also a failure of social services / the agency that regulates adoptions. Over here I know that the adoptive family has to go through a long vetting process, and needs to have proven financial means to provide for them and the children.