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Re:Hack of Cupid Media dating website exposes 42 million pla... by nly on Wednesday November 20, 2013 @07:18AM (#6767581)
And that's a false dichotomy. Are you saying we should dismiss dangerous flaws in the trust model, just because we have some workarounds for bad industry practice, and can 'make do'? because I'm not saying we shouldn't advocate strengthening existing databases right now. To me, the two concerns are completely separate.
Re:Hack of Cupid Media dating website exposes 42 million pla... by jacques_chester on Wednesday November 20, 2013 @07:38AM (#6767630)
The is/ought fallacy isn't about saying that the actual world and the ideal world are mutually exclusive; that you can't get to the ideal world from the actual world.

It's that dismissing actual options because they are not as good as hypothetical options is fallacious reasoning.

It's about taking the actual world seriously, on its own terms, without getting tied up in knots about the parameters of the ideal world.

Right now we don't live in a world with a better browser security model. Regardless of whether any one of us individually argues for such a world, the current world is where our professional duties must be discharged.

Re:Hack of Cupid Media dating website exposes 42 million pla... by nly on Wednesday November 20, 2013 @08:43AM (#6767868)
The false dichotomy I was referring to isn't the 'introduce bcrypt' vs 'introduce a new model' thing, those things clearly aren't mutually exclusive, it's that you inferred that me pushing for one means that I'm totally against the other in the present day. In any case I have no desire to join a thread about fallacious reasoning and semantics.

> Regardless of whether any one of us individually argues for such a world, the current world is where our professional duties must be discharged.

And there are plenty of people pushing for bcrypt/scrypt and such every time this happens. My duty in this case is to point out that this will never end all the time we allow the possibility of recurrence.

There's a real danger in going too far and making bcrypt/scrypt solutions doctrine. There are still plenty of people out there who continue to tout hashing with SHA-1 and salts of a certain construct, because at some point they understood why it was important, continue to have the security conscience, but are not up to date with the new realities.

This is why solutions at the architectural level, and not in the application or framework are so so important. Why oh why oh why, don't we have a column type in SQL databases specifically for storing passwords?

Re:Hack of Cupid Media dating website exposes 42 million pla... by tptacek on Wednesday November 20, 2013 @11:19AM (#6768894)
If that column type existed, it would be a database-resident implementation of scrypt.
Re:Hack of Cupid Media dating website exposes 42 million pla... by tedunangst on Wednesday November 20, 2013 @12:35PM (#6769475)
What would a sample query look like with a password column?