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Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by Gonzih on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @12:52PM (#6599950)
IMHO hydrogen fuel cell technology is more practical. No charging time means that you can travel any range without delays as long as you have hydrogen fuel stations on your way. That kind of technology gives you more freedom I guess. You feel less limited by your vehicle.

And as far as I know charging li-ion batteries is still very slow, they will go flat at some point, faster you are charging them faster they become flat and they are very heavy.

Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by CamperBob2 on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @01:11PM (#6600089)
Ever try to move a large quantity of compressed gas from one place to another in a hurry? It's never as simple as "no charging time."

In my opinion, any alternative-fuel technology that doesn't involve swappable power modules -- whether they're batteries, fuel cells, fusion reactors, or whatever -- is bullshit. Tesla has at least taken some steps in the right direction.

Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by XorNot on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @12:54PM (#6599976)
Charging time is overblown. You can charge a modern battery to 80% in about 5 minutes. That's about how long it takes to fill my car with gas at the moment.

You're not going to be refueling a hydrogen fueled car that quick - it's a volatile, extremely high pressure, extremely cold gas. The safety considerations are substantial.

Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by walshemj on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @01:03PM (#6600035)
At what amperage and voltage and how much did it cost to upgrade the charging station connection to the grid.

And how do you cool the battery during such a fast charge? what % of the energy is lost in heat from the chemical reaction - even Tesla has to obey the laws of thermo dynamics.

Thinking about it from a thermofluids angle You could I suppose have a complex system of heat exchangers built in to the the battery pack and hook the car up to a water connection and flush chilled water (or better some non conductive fluid) through whilst charging but water and high voltage and amps are not the best of friends.

Now where did i put my steam tables :-)

Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by marvin on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @01:58PM (#6600464)
Tesla's supercharging stations charge at 135kW 400V DC, recharging >50% of a 85kWH battery in 30 minutes. The power is delivered from a large (>300kWH) battery pack installed in the charging station, which is continously trickle-charged from the grid. There will also be swap stations implemented, swapping out the entire 85kWH battery pack in 2 minutes.

This is largely a solved problem, both from the sides of technology and deployment. It's just that public perception hasn't caught up yet. Give it 5 years and just about everyone will want one of these cars. For everyday use you won't even need the quick-charge capability.

Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by sucramb on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @03:05PM (#6600891)
> Give it 5 years and just about everyone will want one of these cars.

They sold a batch of MiEV / IOn for $15.000 here and so far everybody is very enthusiastic about them. I think 5 years is a tad optimistic but I give it less then 10 years.

Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by Gonzih on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @12:57PM (#6599996)
Ok, what about durability of batteries compared with durability of fuel cell? I'm just curious because I think that batteries are less durable right now than fuel cells.
Re:Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’ by stonemetal on Wednesday October 23, 2013 @01:37PM (#6600293)
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/durability_...

DOE targets 5k hrs of operation for fuel cells used in transportation. I haven't been able to find an hours of operation for batteries. Wikipedia gins up some numbers to claim 10 to 20 years life expectancy. On the whole it seems batteries are in the lead at this point, but both are near the expected baseline for automobiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_battery