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Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by raverbashing on Sunday October 20, 2013 @05:45AM (#6579407)
In the midst of all, this seems to be one of the best parts of it:

"Tomita says a woman's chances of promotion in Japan stop dead as soon as she marries. "The bosses assume you will get pregnant." Once a woman does have a child, she adds, the long, inflexible hours become unmanageable. "You have to resign. You end up being a housewife with no independent income. It's not an option for women like me."

Great, so if a woman marries she loses independence and her own income, and then people don't know why women don't want to marry?

Same thing here:

"Romantic commitment seems to represent burden and drudgery, from the exorbitant costs of buying property in Japan to the uncertain expectations of a spouse and in-laws"

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by intelliot on Sunday October 20, 2013 @06:04AM (#6579439)
Notably, it appears that prior generations had higher birthrates because women were not expected to participate in the workforce. They didn't want to and/or weren't allowed to. They were treated differently than men.

A potential downside of making women equal to men is that they become more similar. They don't need each other. They don't complement each other anymore. Opposites attract, but if women are expected to succeed in the same way as men, then the prior balance is lost.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by kaitai on Sunday October 20, 2013 @10:46AM (#6580041)
Happily, I now get to marry my husband because I want to be with him, instead of simply making a bid for economic survival and trading sex & childbirth for food & housing. As someone living in the US, I also get to continue my work which brings me great pleasure and independence. There are certainly difficulties and compromises, but I for one am delighted that I'm no longer required by law to resign my position upon marriage. My husband seems pretty happy that he's not the sole breadwinner, too, as he can contemplate things like quitting work and going back to school.

This messy compromise seems impossible for women in Japan.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by randomafrican on Sunday October 20, 2013 @06:25AM (#6579477)
It's more an imbalance between social expectations and modern living.

More conservative societies see a steeper decline in birthrate as women participation in the workforce increases.

That's why France has one of the highest birthrate in Europe for instance.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by novalis78 on Sunday October 20, 2013 @06:38AM (#6579489)
I disagree, I think the opposite is the case. American Caucasians have a higher fertility rate than almost all Western Europeans; birth rates in France typically include recent immigrant fertility rates which are significantly higher. The arguments to avoid children are similar to the Japanese: independence, more money for consumption, etc

Disclaimer: I grew up in Germany/Austria and find the topic of Europeqn demographics quite intriguing

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by randomafrican on Sunday October 20, 2013 @07:31AM (#6579590)
America does have a quite liberal attitude about gender roles.

As far as France and immigrants go, I'm not sure relevant studies are available (since France has very specific policies about not mentionning race/origin in its official data). But My intuition is that the role of the immigrant population is overrated. Mostly because the keyword here is "recent" and while France has a rather large population of second or third generation immigrants, the recent immigrant population is probably not much higher than anywhere in Europe.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by guard-of-terra on Sunday October 20, 2013 @10:23AM (#6579966)
American Caucasians' fertility rate is steadily declining. France has high birth rate for native French too. I'm not sure which one is bigger at the moment.
Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by camus2 on Sunday October 20, 2013 @07:37AM (#6579600)
Yeah but it's because you get a lot of welfare when you have babies in France,especially when you have 3 or more.

Stop giving these freebies and fertility rates will drop in no time.

The question is , should we encourage it? in the long run ,it doesnt make sense. We often hear on the radio here how Germans dont make babies anymore and it will doom Germany. I dont think so, one country doesnt need perpetual population growth in order to survive, i believe Germans are smarter on these issues.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by guard-of-terra on Sunday October 20, 2013 @10:30AM (#6579988)
"doesnt need perpetual population growth" It's no longer about growth, it's about decline now.

Can a country with perpetually declining and aging population survive? In what form?

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by amercade on Monday October 21, 2013 @09:21AM (#6585279)
I don't think than "perpetual" is going to happen to any trend.
Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by mtts on Sunday October 20, 2013 @07:53AM (#6579625)
> That's why France has one of the highest birthrate in Europe for instance.

France has very active policies in place to promote large families, which is why if you run into a French couple with children they'll often have three or more instead of just one or two.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by dclowd9901 on Sunday October 20, 2013 @12:39PM (#6580427)
Another potential downside: It doubles the size of the work force. Suddenly there's too many people for a limited pool of jobs, and everyone who works is miserable and makes far too little.

I wonder sometimes if maybe we've swung too far in the direction of gender equality, where now we shame people into believing their self worth can only be found through their professional success, rather than letting them live a life they more care to live. How many times have I seen an article grace the HN homepage defending the idea of being a stay-at-home-whatever?

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by VLM on Sunday October 20, 2013 @08:11AM (#6579655)
Even worse the equality argument goes both directions not just women trying the former man lifestyle, but the other way around as the article barely touches on the two decades of economic stagnation issue.

Its not just salaryman and stay at home wife turning into salaryman and salarywoman, its unemployed dude and salarywoman at the same time.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by klipt on Sunday October 20, 2013 @08:45AM (#6579728)
> from the exorbitant costs of buying property in Japan

Well they are living on an island. You can't grow your population forever in a finite space without increased competition.

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by muraiki on Sunday October 20, 2013 @10:40AM (#6580022)
I recall reading an article saying that there is actually quite a lot of undeveloped / rural land in Japan, but people tend to live in the largest cities because large businesses want to be close to the areas of greatest political influence.
Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by michaelochurch on Sunday October 20, 2013 @10:59AM (#6580083)
I recall reading an article saying that there is actually quite a lot of undeveloped / rural land in Japan, but people tend to live in the largest cities because large businesses want to be close to the areas of greatest political influence.

This is true in most places. The supposedly horribly expensive countries (U.K., Japan, Switzerland; to a lesser degree, the U.S.) are quite affordable outside of the major cities. And there are plenty of high-quality cities that aren't expensive-- analogues of Austin and Portland.

I've come to the conclusion that locating in a large city, for a business, and requiring people work in-office, is an unfunded mandate that borders on the inappropriate. It's worth having a corporate office there, of course; but expecting people to live in a high-COL area if they want to have a career at your company is not only classist, but probably a tactical mistake as well. Remote work poses a lot of difficulties, but it's the only thing that will save us from this catastrophic, worldwide real estate problem. (We should also work on high-speed, affordable trains... but one step at a time.)

Winner-take-all economics is somewhat inevitable, and the best that a government can do is to place a floor under it (i.e. it can't, and shouldn't, prevent the winners from shooting ahead; but it should prevent poverty for the less fortunate) but when WTA applies to places, you get wide swathes of joblessness and a few cities with robust economies but housing prices so severe as to constitute a return of debt bondage. Instead of indentured servants paying for their boat ride, now they pay a 500% housing premium for the ability to live there (i.e. access to the local job market). It's the return of hereditary oligarchy, with real estate being passed from one generation to the next and almost unaffordable on the legitimate market (due to regulatory corruption coming from entrenched, malignant interests-- owners trying to keep their property prices artificially high.)

No one asks, "Why did people drink so much in Communist Russia?" because it's taken as self-evident that Soviet-style communism was a gloomy, depressing system so "of course" people hit the vodka. Yet it surprises the hell out of people that urbanites under a runaway market system have stopped having children (and, in some sad cases, relationships and sex).

Re:Have young people in Japan stopped having sex? by raverbashing on Sunday October 20, 2013 @02:18PM (#6580835)
Yes, I remember hearing about some places where the cities would give you a place to build your house in exchange for living there.

Japan is concentrated on the urban areas, apart from that it's very scarcely populated.

And Japan is bigger (area) than Germany.