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Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by lr on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @10:35AM (#6360236)
At what point does it become ok to harass and threaten this "privileged" group of people?
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by etherael on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @10:55AM (#6360369)
Never, but seriously as soon as I hear typical combinations of the words white male cis privilege I instantly write off the person using it as hopelessly deluded. These are dog whistles for social justice warrior ideologies and everything they imply.

Use "different perspective" if that's what you're trying to put across, and if it's not and you really believe the whole privilege meme as something more than that, that's exactly why I write you off.

Either way it means either you couldn't be bothered to figure out an effective way to convey a simple core idea without being horrendously offensive, or you actually don't have a clue what you are talking about.

This article was mostly excellent because it primarily avoided the classic persecution complexes that are almost par for the course in such things, to have the top comment here raving about privilege does the article an enormous disservice.

Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by pzuraq on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @12:06PM (#6360909)
I don't even...

Would you say that black people in America have it harder than white people, perhaps in some places more so than others? If so you accept that people are treated differently based on externalities. People are treated unfairly. People are mocked, hurt, threatened, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

And you want to tell me that it offends you when they say some people have privilege?

Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by jsmeaton on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @08:18PM (#6364574)
I'm annoyed (not offended) by referring to it as privilege. To me it suggests that the "non-privileged" are being treated exactly as they should be, and the "privileged" have been elevated in some way.

Black people and women being discriminated against is just that - discrimination, and that is horrible. But that doesn't (in my mind) make a white male privileged.

Is a white woman more privileged than a black man? Who has more privilege between a black man and a black woman? What about a homeless white man vs a successful white woman?

When someone suffers discrimination it should be called out, addressed, and made right. But it's unfair to paint the rest of the planet as an enemy for not suffering the same abuse.

Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by nollidge on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @11:42AM (#6360690)
What the fuck is so "horrendously offensive" about the obvious truth that some classes of people have advantages that others don't?
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by Tycho on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @11:59AM (#6360841)
THe words privilege and advantage aren't really interchangeable.
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by orclev on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @04:43PM (#6363332)
I knew there was something that was bothering me about the way they abuse the word privilege, I just couldn't put my finger on it, thanks for pointing that out.
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by nollidge on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @05:17PM (#6363568)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/privilege

> 1. a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most

Regardless, even if I and others called it "cronut", that doesn't invalidate the concept. So yours and Tycho's argument-from-terminology is just a distraction, and fails to even address the substance of my complaint.

Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by orclev on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @05:25PM (#6363620)
The fundamental difference is that a privilege is something given while an advantage can be something inherent. Privilege isn't something you're born with, it's something someone else has given you (and there's a strong implication of it being earned rather than simply handed out). Language is important, it does no one any good to try to subvert a word to a new and contradictory use because it paints your argument in a better light because of its existing connotations which do not apply.

Regardless of all that I wasn't actually attempting to address your argument at all and my comment wasn't aimed at you. I was simply stating that it annoys me the way privilege has been subverted from its actual meaning by a minority with a particular political motivation. Similarly I'm also annoyed with the way the term organic has been subverted to mean food grown without pesticide even though the actual meaning of the word has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by nollidge on Wednesday September 11, 2013 @01:13PM (#6368435)
The definition I provided, the first definition listed for the word in that particular dictionary, does not say anything about privileges having to be granted by anyone. It's like peeving about "color" vs. "colour" - you're free to insist that one is more correct than the other, but it's quite a waste of efforts, especially since, if you bothered to try, you'd find it quite impossible to come up with an objective basis for your opinion.
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by orclev on Wednesday September 11, 2013 @06:33PM (#6370599)
The dictionary does not capture the full context of a word, only by using it regularly and being exposed to its usage in literature and speech can the full context of it be appreciated. The closest you can come to that from a dictionary definition is to combine all the definitions provided and consider them as a whole, not as disconnected pieces.

The difference between advantage and privilege is that a privilege is an advantage that is given by an outside force and ceases to exist without the influence of that external force. A person may be provided, given, or granted a privilege, it is not something they innately have. Similarly a privilege may be taken away at any time. An advantage on the other hand typically can not be taken unless it's some item or information that is providing that advantage and not some inherent capability. This is where the concept of a handicap comes from, it's a penalty applied to someone in order to balance a advantage they have. Contrast with a privilege which requires nothing to be added, merely the privilege to be removed. There is similarly no equivalent of handicap with regard to privilege as it makes no sense to add anything to attempt to balance a privilege when simply removing the privilege is far simpler.

As for objective basis of my opinion, that's the easiest thing in the world, there's several hundred years of English literature to back me up.

As for the abuse of the word privilege in this context, you could say being male provides someone with an advantage, or being female provides a disadvantage, but you can not say that someone has a male privilege, as that implies someones male-ness can be taken away.

Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by Tycho on Tuesday September 10, 2013 @06:47PM (#6364098)
It's so irritating I pretty much tune out whenever the word comes up. And then there is the oxymoronic 'underprivileged' to contend with.
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by nollidge on Wednesday September 11, 2013 @01:15PM (#6368452)
That you shut yourself out of the conversation on social inequality because you don't like the words is childish and callous.
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by etherael on Thursday September 12, 2013 @04:55AM (#6372905)
Re:To my daughter's high school programming teacher by Tycho on Wednesday September 11, 2013 @06:10PM (#6370477)
oh so it's 'the' conversation, is it

it's not a case of not liking the words, it's a case of not liking underhand word games in serious debates