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Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by Amadou on Sunday September 08, 2013 @07:36PM (#6351002)
I watched the two presentations via the valleywag page others have cited. The problem I see with TechCrunch's apology is that they are mixing up terminology. I don't think either presentation was sexist and especially not misogynstic - what they were was sexual.

Modern society has a similar problem distinguishing between racist humor and racial humor. While there certainly can be overlap between -ist and -ual humor, my general rule for distinguishing the two is that -ist humor stereotypes to get laughs while -ual humor laughs at the stereotyping.

Lots of organizations think the line between the -ist and -ual is too fine and prefer to outright ban the acknowledgment of any issues at all. If we forbid discussion of race at all then you never have to think about whether a topic is racist or racial. Same with sex, if all mention of sex is forbidden then there is no chance of someone saying something sexist.

If an organization wants to take such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach that's their prerogative, but they should be clear about it. Don't say "any type of sexism will not be allowed" say "any mention of sex will not be allowed."

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by parennoob on Sunday September 08, 2013 @08:03PM (#6351110)
This.

Ted Dziuba has mentioned the tech industry being extremely sex negative, and him being almost afraid to criticize it because of the inevitable massive backlash he would face. And this is being reinforced by the increasing "don't even mention anything related to sex in a prrrrrofesional setting" approach being taken by a lot of popular organizations these days.

For example, just look at github's repository forking message. Before, it used to say the not-very-funny-but-would-still-bring-a-smile-to-your-face "Hardcore forking action". I'd bet good money this was changed to the unassuming dining table due to these same sex-negative, puritanical people who claimed it was somehow making them feel oppressed or uncomfortable.

Sex is a biological need of humans. A lot of the tech industry has forward, progressive views on things such as gay marriage. Why retain these puritan, intolerant, purse-lipped attitudes towards sex-positivity?

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by tallio on Monday September 09, 2013 @09:55AM (#6353434)
>This.

4chan is that way >>>

>Sex is a biological need of humans. A lot of the tech industry has forward, progressive views on things such as gay marriage. Why retain these puritan, intolerant, purse-lipped attitudes towards sex-positivity?

Because feminism is invading. If you can't see this, you've probably not been a part of the tech industry for too long.

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by Amadou on Monday September 09, 2013 @10:22AM (#6353587)
Because feminism is invading. If you can't see this, you've probably not been a part of the tech industry for too long.

You appear to be saying that feminism == puritanism. That's just completely wrong.

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by theorique on Sunday September 08, 2013 @08:09PM (#6351138)
You're right that it was "sexual". However, I'm not sure that the industry has enough average maturity to handle frank discussions of sexuality, especially in big, diverse groups.

Given the demographics of the industry, I don't think it was an accident that it was "TitStare" rather than "DongStare" or "CockStare". I'm sure you could imagine that the nature of the app might make the women in the audience feel a bit odd, that the big punchline was an app about looking at their breasts. Especially since a lot of women feel like they are already struggling for legitimacy in this industry, which is considered by many to be dealing with a sexism problem

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by parennoob on Sunday September 08, 2013 @08:39PM (#6351219)
> Given the demographics of the industry, I don't think it was an accident that it was "TitStare" rather than "DongStare" or "CockStare".

Translation from roundaboutspeak -> English: Yes, it was an app marketed at men (though remember that there are lesbians and bisexual men and women as well that like tits) that sexually objectified women.

If sexual objectification was the sole reason that made women leave an industry, there should be no women working for Playboy or the porn industry.

Last I checked, there were plenty of women working willingly in both.

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by foobarbazqux on Sunday September 08, 2013 @08:42PM (#6351225)
In general, sex workers choose their profession out of desperation.
Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by MistahKoala on Sunday September 08, 2013 @11:16PM (#6351646)
In general, it depends on where in the world they are, and in general (if we're framing this in terms of the same women for whom a hackathon might be accessible), they are driven by characteristic/ psychological factors (Sexually Transmitted Diseases:Volume 26(2)February 1999).

That's also pretty demeaning to women whose choices deserve to be respected, rather than pitied ("poor, silly women!").

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by foobarbazqux on Monday September 09, 2013 @12:23AM (#6351837)
Desperately trying to escape the shittiness of your life through drug abuse, and from there getting into prostitution, is still desperation.

Say what you will about respect, but I find it disgusting that our society demeans women by congratulating them for entering sex work as a profession. ("Oh good for you, you made a free choice to take off your panties for me! What a sweet little empowered capitalist you are!") There are plenty of abolitionist women's groups around the world that agree, for example:

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/feature/entry/abolishing-pr...

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by parennoob on Monday September 09, 2013 @12:40AM (#6351882)
Say what you will about personal choice, but I find it empowering that our society enables women by letting them them freely enter sex work as a profession.

^ See what I did there? You believe sex workers are homeless druggies, I believe they are efficient businesswomen. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. At some point, it basically becomes your personal views about exchanging sex for money, and the morality involved therein.

Which is exactly what I'm saying about the current fracas -- it is a few people who have quickly-offended personal moralities that have been outraged by TitShare or whatever. Tying it to a larger issue of "this is why women don't work in tech" is a futile exercise.

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by foobarbazqux on Monday September 09, 2013 @01:23AM (#6351995)
Of course morality is personal, what else would it be?
Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by MistahKoala on Monday September 09, 2013 @03:57PM (#6355745)
And there are plenty that don't. Presumably you don't claim those women for yourself, though.
Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by foobarbazqux on Monday September 09, 2013 @05:40PM (#6356439)
There are also plenty of women that will tell you they are freely choosing to submit to male authority by wearing a head scarf, or binding their feet which requires breaking the arches so they can fold them in half (in centuries past), or working for significantly less money, or, or, or...

In general, I don't take people's words about the freedom of the choices they've made at face value unless they've first convinced me that they're actually free to make those choices, and that includes freedom from longstanding emotional baggage and unresolved internal conflicts.

Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by parennoob on Sunday September 08, 2013 @08:44PM (#6351230)
Playboy? Hollywood? Advertising?
Re:An Apology From TechCrunch by Amadou on Monday September 09, 2013 @03:48AM (#6352295)
the nature of the app might make the women in the audience feel a bit odd, that the big punchline was an app about looking at their breasts.

The app was about photos of men staring at breasts, not about actually looking at breasts - the butt of the joke were the men who selfishly stereotype women as being defined by their breasts and act as if their breasts are there for men (e.g. the reference to the recent news story that looking at breasts makes men more healthy even if women don't appreciate being reduced to an object that makes men more healthy).

> why not "DongStare"

Because it is very common for people (plenty of women have also internalized this behavior) to stereotype women based on their breasts, but it is orders of magnitude less common for people to stereotype men by the bulge in their pants. The joke was about the people who do the stereotyping not about the anatomy itself.