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Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by jlgreco on Friday September 06, 2013 @04:39PM (#6342544)
"So you'd be interested to see the Tesla compared to a WRC car, and you would find it useful to hear that the Tesla can pull higher g's on an asphalt skidpad and has a nicer interior?"

Sure, I'd read that article. Throw the Tesla onto a dirt track too, I'd read that as well. Hell, I want to know if it can go upside-down in a sewer tunnel. I don't see the problem here.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @04:41PM (#6342551)
It might be interesting out of sheer bemusement- especially if they take the Tesla around a WRC track- but it's ultimately a meaningless comparison.

Oh, the Tesla has a nicer interior than the stripped Subaru racing shell? Count me impressed! (said no one)

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by plorkyeran on Friday September 06, 2013 @04:45PM (#6342577)
The reason these articles are interesting is because they're talking about the Tesla doing well when compared on the other cars' strengths, where you would expect the cheaper car focused on something different to do worse. Obviously an article about how the Tesla is better at something than a car which is very bad at that thing would not be very interesting.
Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @05:03PM (#6342667)
Acceleration isn't really an important strength of the Aston's, and Tesla gets applauded for its acceleration all the time. So which is the one that we expect to do worse?
Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by umsm on Friday September 06, 2013 @06:20PM (#6342995)
I wouldn't buy a sports or GT car without acceleration being it's "strength"...
Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @06:35PM (#6343052)
Then you probably wouldn't be interested in an Aston Martin. If acceleration is your top priority, you can always buy an STI for a third as much, boost the snot out of it, and leave the Rapide in your dust.

The Rapide is no slouch, to be sure, but acceleration falls somewhere in the middle of a larger spectrum of goals for that car.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by lttlrck on Friday September 06, 2013 @07:12PM (#6343172)
So you can race between the lights? There is a lot more to it than that.
Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by jlgreco on Friday September 06, 2013 @04:43PM (#6342564)
Admittedly I am more in the market for being entertained than impressed.

Unfortunately I would be very surprised if Top Gear touches a Tesla car again with a 10-foot pole (and I can't say I blame them).

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by kbenson on Friday September 06, 2013 @05:39PM (#6342840)
Same here. I would also be very surprised if Tesla touches Top Gear again with a 10-foot pole (and I can't say I blame them, either).

I think they both had wildly different expectations of what was appropriate in that situation. Neither came out looking very good, IMHO.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by bcaulf on Friday September 06, 2013 @07:18PM (#6343188)
I think Musk is in need of some good advice on PR strategy. He started public battles with Top Gear and the NY Times over inaccuracies. I think it's more than likely he was right in both cases--those are not the homes of highly objective and sophisticated auto journalism. Top Gear is just entertainment, and the NY Times doesn't bother including the weight of a car in a review, which says something about their thoroughness. Autocar.uk in contrast is extremely respected and diligent.

But engaging the press in a press release war creates the wrong image for the company. Who will hear about it? Viewers of Top Gear and the NY Times. And they won't be likely to guess their beloved news source is in the wrong. You can't win that kind of fight and he should have known better than to try. I can't believe it has been good for Tesla on balance.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by bhauer on Friday September 06, 2013 @08:27PM (#6343402)
You think so? I see it the other way.

Top Gear is the Daily Show of automobile journalism. Although it's entertainment, a surprising number of its viewers would cite it as their primary source of auto news.

Just as with the Daily Show audience, the Top Gear audience isn't thinking very critically about every subject presented. With that kind of audience, it's all about appearances. Merely having heard that there has been a kerfuffle over their prior coverage of Tesla is sufficient for viewers to think, "well, perhaps what I saw about Tesla on Top Gear wasn't quite accurate." In other words, since loud and silly is all that this audience can perceive, I think Musk did the right thing.

I was skeptical of Musk's reaction to the Times, but in net, I think Tesla came out of that looking seriously intolerant of journalistic hijinks. And many people respect that.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by kbenson on Saturday September 07, 2013 @12:48AM (#6344010)
I've actually thought the same thing regarding Top Gear for quite a while, and said as much in another offshoot of this thread (prior to reading this).

I was also on the side of it being a slight misstep for Tesla to make as much of an issue of the NYT and Top Gear problems, but in hindsight I think it's paid off for them. There's been so much good press now that people thinking back on the events may have a different opinion than when they first heard about it, and Tesla was less well known.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @09:53PM (#6343620)
loud and silly is all that this audience can perceive

Jesus, is there some bad blood between HN and Top Gear? Or is this the bad blood, the Tesla thing?

On second thought, I could see that being it. HN pretty much idolizes Musk after all.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by bhauer on Saturday September 07, 2013 @12:22AM (#6343965)
I love Top Gear. I love it for being loud and silly.

But, whether you and I see it as entertainment is somewhat moot when, like the Daily Show, much of its audience actually gleans the totality of their auto news intake from this entertainment show. Because, frankly, many are not interested in watching the serious news shows, automotive or otherwise.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by shabble on Friday September 06, 2013 @10:54PM (#6343747)
The better solution would (IMO) to have been to out-Top-Gear Top-Gear in some fashion, and use that exposure to also cover your point of contention.

I think a suitable segment to parody would be the (rocket assisted) Mini Cooper Ski-Jump[1] from the Top Gear Winter Olympics Special[2].

For the low low price of a single Model S, a Merlin engine, and some quality time bodging one onto the other[3], he'd have a guaranteed viral hit in which to make his appeal to the public, as well as, almost certainly, the credibility of producing either a much better jump, or a much larger fireball.

As the saying (sorta) goes: "Never get into a rocket fight with a rocket scientist who owns his own rocket making company."

[1] http://www.bbcamerica.com/top-gear/videos/mini-ski-jump/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Winter_Olympics

[3] plus somewhere with a ski-jump they don't really like that much, and whose authorities don't have a problem with a mostly-horizontal rocket flight-plan, which might be tricky.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @09:16PM (#6343551)
they won't be likely to guess their beloved news source is in the wrong

It doesn't really matter if their beloved news source is right or wrong, it still paints Tesla as litigious. The only time such suits over reviews expressly supported by the manufacturer go over well is when the reviewer committed gross fabrications or other inaccuracies.

The omissions in their suit speak quite loudly to me. For example, I just went back and rewatched the Top Gear review. They mention the engine overheated in one Tesla, and in the other the brakes failed while it was charging. I notice Tesla only made a big deal about the race track range estimate, which if I recall they didn't even claim was wrong- just misleading. That leaves an especially bad taste in my mouth- it's almost like Tesla is trying to discredit the apparently real failures by nitpicking unrelated minor details.

It all looks even more shady when you consider how few of these sorts of scuffles come up with Top Gear & other car companies.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @06:39PM (#6343067)
It was a clash of TV cultures. In America, there's an implicit expectation that your "sponsorship" will elicit positive things, tit for tat. In the UK, they get away with all sorts of blasphemy- they are free to bash the cars that get provided for reviews. If you watch Top Gear UK much, you'll notice they criticize plenty of cars, even ones that were on loan from the manufacturer.

(This is part of why Top Gear America is but a shadow of Top Gear UK)

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by nknighthb on Friday September 06, 2013 @07:08PM (#6343162)
What the hell?

Top Gear lied. Tesla wasn't expecting special treatment for sponsorship, they were expecting a modicum of honesty. You don't get to put this down to "culture clash" unless you're defining "ethical" and "unethical" as cultures.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by jlgreco on Saturday September 07, 2013 @03:36AM (#6344251)
I don't think you are familiar with what Top Gear is... You don't think there is any trickery going on here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TbpgZ2Dt0A ?

Sometimes they fabricate things to make an awesome car look awful, sometimes they fabricate to make a mediocre car look awesome.

The common denominator is that they fabricate for the sake of entertainment. Anybody who actually watches the show would know and embrace that.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by nknighthb on Saturday September 07, 2013 @05:08PM (#6346632)
I am well aware of what Top Gear is, and that's why I stopped watching it almost as soon as I started, and wondered why the hell anyone else watches it, either. I don't think establishing a past pattern of lies is an excuse for future lies, nor do I think lies presented as facts are "entertaining" in the least. They're just lies, nothing more, nothing less, and they and their peddlers should be treated as such.
Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @07:13PM (#6343173)
I've never heard evidence Top Gear UK lied or slandered Tesla in the review. I believe the contention of the lawsuit Tesla filed was the 55 mile range quote would be misleading to the public because it was based on driving the Tesla around their track at race speeds. (The judge threw it out saying it wasn't misleading at all)
Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by nknighthb on Friday September 06, 2013 @08:24PM (#6343388)
The range quote wasn't even based on a genuine test. The car was never run down to empty, and yet they showed the car being pushed into the garage as if it were.

Judges aren't arbiters of truth, they're arbiters of law. If your standard for truth is "a judge didn't say it was legally defamatory", I hope nobody ever trusts anything you say.

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by sliverstorm on Friday September 06, 2013 @09:02PM (#6343521)
They said it was a range estimate. Right there in the episode. Where was the lie?

Oh no! They showed a dramatization of running out of power while driving it on their track! How dare they!

Re:Tesla Model S Outperforms Aston Martin by kbenson on Friday September 06, 2013 @10:58PM (#6343768)
From the video[1]:

(while driving around the track, cornering) "This car then really was shaping up to something wonderful. But then..."

(cut to Jeremy in the Roadster, a musical cue cutting off the soundtrack, signalling a problem. Jeremy pumps his foot, looks down at his foot and back up with a perplexed look on his face, and says "Oh", with backround noise of the Tesla decelerating.

Jump to outside view of the Roadster rolling to a stop in the middle of the track, with Jeremy narrating "Although Tesla say it will do two hundred miles, we worked out that on our track it would run out after just 55 miles." During this the scene changes to men pushing the Roadster in a hanger.

More narration from Jeremy, "And if it does run out, it's not a quick job to charge it up again."

Make of that what you will, I don't think words do it justice, which is why I included the video[0]. The narration is accurate, but the portrayal clearly implies something more than the narration, making it very to misconstrue what the facts are. The facts are, by the way, that the Roadster never ran out of power, they ran it for a few hours, decided they didn't want to wait for it to run out, and staged that portion.

Now, Top Gear is clearly an entertainment and comedy program, but to act like that's the end of it is also clearly ignoring the reality of the situation. Top Gear is less like SNL than The Daily Show or The Colbert Report. Viewers expect it to not be too serious, but right or wrong, they also expect to be able to get some information from the show, knowing that they'll need to sort through the context to determine whether it was a joke or not.

Keeping all that in mind, to me Top Gear seems to have overstepped slightly here. Then Tesla overreacted with a lawsuit. That's why I said neither seems to have come off well.

[1]: http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/electric-shocker, start at 4:17 for the relevant scene.