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Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mikeash on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @11:15AM (#6328102)
There's simply no room for the scenario you're proposing. The math of curved reflectors is reasonably simple. What kind of "unexpected reasons" could possibly cause this problem?

Maybe this guy did think about it. Maybe he's not stupid? But that's worse for him, because it means he knew what would happen and didn't care.

This is on about the same level as dropping a piano from the top of the building and crushing whatever was below at the time. It's so basic that there's no way to say that it was unforeseeable, so either the person dropping the piano failed to think about gravity, or they didn't care about the damage they did.

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by uxp on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @11:22AM (#6328160)
Maybe this guy did think about it.

I'm sure the guy _DID_ think about it, as he was the one that architected the "death ray" building in Las Vegas, as pointed out further up the thread

And the crescent-shaped Vdara Hotel and Spa in Las Vegas, designed – astonishingly – by the same architect as the Walkie Talkie, was briefly known as "Death Ray Hotel" when it opened in 2009 after guests complained a 15 sq m area of the pool deck was hot enough to singe their hair and melt plastic.

- http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/shortcuts/2013/sep/0...

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by jacobparker on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @11:26AM (#6328194)
That's... wow that's a really naive idea of how engineering works. You think that you do a few sin's and cos's and then mistakes just can't happen? That stuff you did in middle-school? I guess civil engineering really needs you.

Why are you referring to a singular "this guy"? I hope you understand that the design an construction of a skyscraper involves more than one person at every step.

I'm not sure why you are floating the conspiracy theory stuff - I really hope that's some kind of straw-man you're trying to pull, because otherwise... seek help.

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mikeash on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @11:30AM (#6328224)
I never said mistakes can't happen. I said that this mistake is an elementary one that should not have happened. Some mistakes are complex and hard. This mistake was trivial. Doubly trivial in that the guy who made the mistake already did it at least once before.

I am referring to a singular "this guy" because there's an architect, "this guy", who designed the building. He determined the shape. The shape caused the problem. Yes, there's an army of people involved in the details, but the shape was one guy.

What "conspiracy theory stuff" are you talking about?

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by jacobparker on Thursday September 05, 2013 @09:11AM (#6333899)
Sigh. There is not one architect that designed the building (even if one gets his name on for publicity reasons - there is a team.) The architect is also only one part of the process - I sure hope you know that they don't actually implement their designs.

The "conspiracy theory stuff" is the "But that's worse for him, because it means he knew what would happen and didn't care." part. That was an extremely ignorant comment to make.

I'm happy that you think its a simple mistake, but you don't have the credentials to claim that. Middle school math doesn't cut it.

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mikeash on Thursday September 05, 2013 @09:57AM (#6334188)
Do you have the credentials, or are you simply arguing on the same base I am?
Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by notahacker on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @02:19PM (#6329355)
Most software bugs are, when described to the layman after the fact, pretty elementary, but at least structural engineers usually don't insist the software architect that wrote the initial specs for a project must have been stupid when the version the outsourced dev team releases crashes under certain input parameters.
Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mikeash on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @06:32PM (#6330941)
The software equivalent of this mistake would be spending millions of dollars building software targeting Linux when the customer needs to run it on Windows. It's not "certain input parameters", it's obvious environmental conditions that should have been considered at the outset.

I would really like one of the naysayers in this thread to describe to me exactly how a mistake like this gets reasonably made. I keep getting replies saying that there are good reasons why something like this would happen, but nobody has actually given me one.

There are no confounding factors in this case that invalidate the freshman physics calculation that tells you that this building design will melt things or light them on fire. There is no excuse for not doing said calculations when designing a curved glass building, especially when you already made the mistake on a previous building you designed. And there is no conceivable way you thought you mitigated the problem while actually failing to do so in a reasonable fashion.

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by notahacker on Thursday September 05, 2013 @02:12PM (#6335803)
As another person with rather more knowledge of architectural design processes pointed out in great detail on this page, the group that designs the facade is not the same as the group that models its behaviour under certain conditions, which is not the same as the group that makes the final decision on the tinting of glass panels, which is not the group that erects it to surprisingly imprecise tolerances.

We're not talking about something obvious like Linux vs Windows. We're talking about something which is superficially obvious like integers can exceed X digits ...where the actual integers are the product of a decidely non-obvious set of calculations intended to generate low values but affected by code several specialist teams have commit privileges to.

We're talking about a very slight degree of concavity on part of a large facade focuses the sun's rays for two hours a day, two weeks a year provided the surface material is sufficiently reflective and London has less than its median 68% cloud cover for September. And we're also talking about a building that isn't finished yet: here's an architect's rendering of the offending facade that appears to have ridges the current sheer shiny wall doesn't http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&safe=off&client=firefox-...

It's not like either glass facades with some degree of concavity are unusual or being singed by them is common. Unlike database errors those stupid developers keep coming up with.

n.b I don't even like the building; it's fugly from where I'm sitting. I'm going sunbathing there tomorrow though.

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mikeash on Thursday September 05, 2013 @08:56PM (#6338122)
Except it's not "non-obvious" at all, but highly obvious.

The people who designed the facade are not the same group that models the behavior under certain conditions? Well, that's apparently stupid, and somebody in the first group should have said, hey, where does this thing focus sunlight?

At some point, somebody drew a giant curved reflective surface and failed to consider what it would do to the sunlight. That is dumb. I don't see any way around that.

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mark-r on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @04:40PM (#6330317)
What kind of "unexpected reasons" could possibly cause this problem?

Perhaps they did a simulation but there was a bug in the software?

If you read the article on the Las Vegas building, you'll see that they expected some kind of window coating to counteract the problem but found after the fact that it didn't work.

There are 1000 different reasons why the actual outcome might not match up with initial projections. I think it's naive to assume that they didn't think about the problem at all.

Edit: after reading some of the other comments, perhaps I'm the naive one. Interesting thread.

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mikeash on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @06:33PM (#6330949)
The window coating explanation makes no sense. You test that on individual panes before installing them and see how much light it really absorbs. Either the coating underperformed, in which case they should have caught it, or the coating performed to specification but wasn't specified to block enough light, in which case they should have caught it.

I'd like to know at least one of these "1000 different reasons" why this could happen. Because I can't think of a single one, and nobody else has given me any....

Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by jacobparker on Thursday September 05, 2013 @09:16AM (#6333929)

     I'd like to know at least one of these "1000 different reasons" why this could happen. Because I can't think of a single one, and nobody else has given me any....
You would have to ask someone who does this for a living. iOS and Rails developers are not qualified to speculate. Next time you ask "how stupid could they be?" the answer is "smarter than I am, apparently".
Re:Glare from London 'fryscraper' blamed for melting cars by mikeash on Thursday September 05, 2013 @09:46AM (#6334122)
On what basis do you make that statement, exactly? Nearly all architects go their entire career without building structures that concentrate the sun into a point hot enough to melt things. This architect has done it twice now. Sounds like he is doing something wrong, not that this is a problem inherent to the field.