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Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by pdonis on Thursday August 22, 2013 @11:47AM (#6257858)
I guess nobody thought it would be overrun.

But why would you even take that risk? Not to mention that tsunamis can easily reach 100 feet in wave height; I'm not sure you could build a seawall that could keep one out.

Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by WalterBright on Thursday August 22, 2013 @12:56PM (#6258318)
It would be easier to put the generators in bunkers and harden them.

Besides, it was pretty clear to me reading the sequence of events at Fukushima that there was entirely too little thought given to backup decoupling - there was too much of a zipper effect of one failure leading to another.

I'm not a lay person on this - I worked for 3 years on airliner designs, and much of that is finding ways to deal with failure cases. The nuke industry could learn a lot by consulting with airframe engineers.

Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by pdonis on Thursday August 22, 2013 @01:26PM (#6258528)
It would be easier to put the generators in bunkers and harden them.

Yes, that would work, as long as you also protected the switchgear and the power cabling leading to the pumps that serve the reactor.

The nuke industry could learn a lot by consulting with airframe engineers.

I think the nuke industry in general does pay attention to these things; I was actually somewhat surprised to find that the designers of Fukushima had missed such an obvious failure mode.

Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by WalterBright on Thursday August 22, 2013 @02:54PM (#6259222)
From what I read about the disaster, there were a long series of design issues that could not withstand failures. As I recall,

1. hydrogen being vented into an enclosed area

2. no backup method for determining coolant levels

3. backup generators were not protected

4. no backup method for adding coolant (I would have had a gravity fed backup system)

5. critical systems were located too close to the reactor - I would have moved them further away so they could be repaired without the workers being irradiated

None of these are expensive to do.

Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by ekianjo on Friday August 23, 2013 @05:20AM (#6262475)
1. You cannot prevent that if the reactors cannot be cooled down. Ultimately very high temperatures will break vapor into hydrogen and will cause hydrogen to accumulate on the shell.

3. Backup generators were located in different areas. The only mistake is that they were ALL at ground level. That's unfortunate that they were all wiped out at the same time but one of the largest Tsunami ever, some stuff that almost never happens. They'll learn from that.

> None of these are expensive to do.

Yeah, when you are building the plant, it's not expensive to do. When you have to modify an existing design, it's way more expensive and you'll have to make a good case for why you need it.

Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by DennisP on Thursday August 22, 2013 @02:14PM (#6258908)
Bear in mind that these reactors were built in the 1970s. Modern designs are a lot better, and some shut down by themselves upon loss of power, with no need for active measures at all. Even some reactors built in the 1980s got through the events at Fukushima just fine.
Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by WalterBright on Thursday August 22, 2013 @02:42PM (#6259121)
I worked on airframe design in the 1970s. The ethos of design to withstand failure was well-entrenched then, and goes back a long way in the airframe industry.

The key idea is nobody has managed to design parts that won't fail. But they have figured out how to design highly reliable systems out of parts that fail.

Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by DennisP on Thursday August 22, 2013 @03:02PM (#6259293)
Sure. The American nuclear industry kinda caught up with that after Three Mile Island, when they figured out that one nuclear accident put them all at risk. They developed an extreme culture of safety after that.

Current designs use lots of redundant safety systems. New designs depend more on simple physics...eg., fuel that expands enough when it heats to damp down the reaction, or large quantities of coolant with very high thermal capacity and conductivity. At Argonne's IFR project, they shut down coolant circulation and electric power, and the reactor quietly shut down with no damage.

Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by brazzy on Friday August 23, 2013 @02:42AM (#6262064)
The problem was not in shutting down the chain reaction - that worked just fine. The problem was in dealing with fuel rods that were still, due to decay processes that nothing in the universe can stop, producing massive amounts of heat that, without active cooling, would melt them and re-start the chain reaction.
Re:Fukushima leak is 'much worse than we were led to believe' by DennisP on Friday August 23, 2013 @10:40AM (#6263857)
Sure, but if the reactor can go a week without cooling and not sustain damage, you've got a lot more leeway. Some of the GenIII+ designs we have now can do that.

The ultimate solution is probably the molten salt reactor. With liquid fuel you continually remove fission products, and with most of those gone you don't have decay heat issues anymore.