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Re:CSS Absolute Centering by bane on Saturday August 10, 2013 @01:34PM (#6191914)
It's absolutely stupid and frustrating. Almost nothing in modern web design just works and it's because of both a badly written standard and badly written implementations.

I get it that HTML is supposed to be for content, CSS for layout and JS for programmatic logic, but the house of cards, duct tape, bailing wire and chewing gum that goes into making a web application is astonishing.

I almost think it would be easier for somebody to come up with an entirely different "web application/dynamic document layout" technology stack with a sane and well-working model all the way through, so that stupid basic things like vertical alignment don't go unfixed year after year after year and we end up with the teetering tower of hacks we have today. We pretty much know what we want out of the web, somebody should just go build it from top to bottom all over again and throw out the huge train wreck we have to deal with today. Sure it would take a while to catch on, but I bet a more efficient set of tools and display environments would rapidly catch on.

We've done it before and replaced older broken technologies with newer, why not do it again?

Re:CSS Absolute Centering by jared314 on Saturday August 10, 2013 @04:11PM (#6192482)
People compile languages with completely different ideologies to the JS object system, so why not compile a better layout model to the CSS box model. The CSS box model is going to be with web development, in it's current form, for at least another five years. So, why not use it as a compilation target.
Re:CSS Absolute Centering by Negitivefrags on Saturday August 10, 2013 @06:37PM (#6192932)
I'm not sure that CSS is has the "Turing completeness" equivalent for layout that a programming language like Javascript has for computation.

That is to say, it's not possible to create any conceivable layout with CSS alone. It might be possible if the thing spits out Javascript as well.

Re:CSS Absolute Centering by jared314 on Saturday August 10, 2013 @06:47PM (#6192959)
You don't need turing completeness to be a compilation target, but you have the right idea with additional javascript. For a box-glue model, similar to Latex, you would have to make some adjustments when resizing. The generated code might end up similar to what twitter bootstrap does it, but one step more abstract.
Re:CSS Absolute Centering by lutusp on Saturday August 10, 2013 @01:44PM (#6191941)
> I almost think it would be easier for somebody to come up with an entirely different "web application/dynamic document layout" technology stack with a sane and well-working model all the way through, so that stupid basic things like vertical alignment don't go unfixed year after year after year and we end up with the teetering tower of hacks we have today.

Yes, but if someone managed to create a logical, concise Web publishing standard that was something other than a can of worms, it would be a proprietary system, most likely patented. Which means no one would voluntarily adopt it.

The advantage of a public, open-source, no-one-in-charge system like we have now is that it's collaborative, democratic, and free. That's also its disadvantage.

For a classic counterexample, look at Apple's products -- they create much more consistent and usable products than the rest of the marketplace. But as many have said, Apple is a walled garden. If an Apple product happens to do what you want with no changes, then fine, otherwise you're out of luck.

Freedom is messy. Democratic technology seems always to veer toward chaos.

Re:CSS Absolute Centering by neilk on Saturday August 10, 2013 @02:14PM (#6192046)
It is not democratic. Democracies at least involve periodic check-ins with everyone who is affected.

The W3C isn't a town hall, it's more like the UN. At best they prevent the web from going back to the chaos of the mid-90s.

Re:CSS Absolute Centering by bane on Saturday August 10, 2013 @01:48PM (#6191955)
I wonder if this is a result of a broken committee process that should have had a benevolent dictator in charge of it instead.
Re:CSS Absolute Centering by lutusp on Saturday August 10, 2013 @02:09PM (#6192035)
> ... should have had a benevolent dictator in charge of it instead.

Like Guido Van Rossum in the Python world (with the title "Benevolent Dictator For Life"), who seems (so far) to manage his power well. But I think this is a rare exception to a well-known rule about arbitrary power.

Re:CSS Absolute Centering by lmm on Saturday August 10, 2013 @05:35PM (#6192764)
Look at what happened with Dart. No-one's going to try writing a better replacement for a web technology in a hurry after that.
Re:CSS Absolute Centering by dbettin on Saturday August 10, 2013 @07:32PM (#6193073)
What happened with Dart? The only thing happening with Dart is progress.
Re:CSS Absolute Centering by jasonlotito on Saturday August 10, 2013 @06:29PM (#6192912)
> I almost think it would be easier for somebody to come up with an entirely different "web application/dynamic document layout" technology stack ...

It was called Flash. Or Java applets.

See history.