Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by veidr on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:22PM
(#6164492)
I got a rush of nostalgia seeing the manual "^seem" correction on the third scanned page. I haven't had to do that for around 30 years, and despite doing it many many times before that, I had completely forgotten about that process.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by krmmalik on Monday August 05, 2013 @09:36PM
(#6164355)
I love the way people communicated in the 20th century, and the writing is very much how it was spoken. There's so much candour and mature sentiment. I feel all that is lost today, there's less candour, less vulnerability and less elegance.
I guess languages evolve over time and it is to be expected, but it does sadden me (not in a bitter way). I'd love to find further works like this. They're exceptionally delightful.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by kafkaesque on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:34PM
(#6164514)
I feel all that is lost today, there's less candour, less vulnerability and less elegance.
As a literature major, I think you're misrepresenting the 20th century; more specifically, the '50s.
The '50s gave birth to the Beat poets, Kerouac's On the Road, Allen Ginsberg (who wrote poetry that would be considered pretty vulgar even by today's standards, including highly detailed sex orgies), Burroughs' Naked Lunch, etc.
Basically, the '50s (and other points in the 20th century), had a lot of literature which was less elegant and less vulnerable--just as experimental as today's works of arts, just as cynical and dishonest.
EB White was a purist. That doesn't mean he was any better or worse. But he does have a particular style he is partial to.
There is more candid, vulnerable, and elegant literature being written today, just as there was in the late 20th century (late 90s). If you tell me the themes you're interested in, I might be able to recommend some stuff.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by ender7 on Monday August 05, 2013 @11:09PM
(#6164595)
Moreover, while White's style of writing is simple and straightforward, it is not representative of how people talked then (or talk today). That's part of the magic -- his words are so carefully crafted that we mistake elegance for simplicity and structure for straightforwardness. There is none of the common unevenness of natural speech to trip up our reading ears; the words flow so easily into our minds that it feels like we're talking to ourselves.
White was also the co-author of a famous prescriptive book on writing and grammar [1]. He knew what he was doing :)
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by kafkaesque on Monday August 05, 2013 @11:34PM
(#6164652)
Very true!
But to be honest, I'm thankful most of my English professors did not care for The Elements of Style, never recommended it, and instead recommended other style guides which were better suited to me and our times. :)
I loved Charlotte's Web, though. I first read it when I was 8, I believe, and it had quite an impact on me.
Thematically, quite different, but Dylan Thomas had the same, I like to call it deceptive 'straightforwardness' and 'simplicity'. Plus, his sincerity was refreshing. He stripped away all the pretentiousness that many symbolists/surrealists can be interpreted as having. When I read him I don't sense that same frivolous nature some academics have, including some stuff by EB White.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by kafkaesque on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @12:40PM
(#6167592)
I'll dig through my boxes to find the one I referred to the most. I have the image of the front cover in my head, but not the name. It was something pretty generic, though.
But I should clarify I went to school in Canada.
All of my style guides were from small publishers and many were written by my instructors/professors.
We/I did use some international ones from time to time (some profs had preferences). These were:
But to get back to The Elements of Style, it would almost be easier to look at what S&W recommend and see how writers write today, as you're most likely to find the answer right there in front of you.
Elements of Style was written in 1918. There have been all sorts of stylistic suggestions since then, depending on your field. The reason why we used more than one style guide at school was because neither can be said to be definitive, exhaustive or the 'best'. Some provided better explanations as to why certain styles were preferred.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by krmmalik on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @08:15AM
(#6166103)
Admittedly, I'm not very well read on literature works at all, 95% of my reading has been things like modern business books. Just practical reading.
There was one book I read that I really enjoyed that was done as a literature work. "The Art of Profitability". Another one was "Five dysfunctions of a team" which I'm not sure if it could be classed as a true literature work or not, not to mention the fact that the ideas hit too close to hoe at the time I was reading it and demanded a serious life change that I wasn't quite able to enjoy the work itself.
I like prose that is a commentary on observations about life, man and business, if you're able to find anything.
I spent about 20 minutes reading through the archives on the lettersofnote website and loved every minute of it. It was the easiest route to a super meditative state I've ever experienced.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by kafkaesque on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @12:59PM
(#6167692)
> I like prose that is a commentary on observations about life, man and business, if you're able to find anything.
No idea about prose, but in terms of fiction, Death of a Salesman is the obvious one, I guess. Also, Rise of Silas Lapham, maybe?
I'll be honest with you, I don't like to read books about man and life and business all in a single work. I took a few American literature courses, but none dealt with all those themes.
For something completely different, have you ever read Slaughterhouse-Five?
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by eshvk on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @12:42AM
(#6164832)
Not the OP; I have been rather taken with the prose of Bukowski. Reminds me a lot of Naipaul. Simple, spare sentences, that are elegant. Do you have suggestions of that type? (Don't care particularly about the themes, really. )
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by eshvk on Monday August 05, 2013 @09:51PM
(#6164410)
I disagree that prose doesn't exist anymore as it once did. It is merely that there is not that much of a market for prose. America, for better or worse, consumes the kind of fiction that is sappy, feel-good. Ultimately, intellectually unsatisfying to me. However, there are books out there, soul-wrenching books that explore the human condition. The condition that cannot be defined in simple terms of good, bad. Where Eat, Pray, Love doesn't end happily.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by krmmalik on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:00PM
(#6164432)
You do have a point. I just feel alot of us write what we think as opposed to what we really feel. There's a fear of being judged. It's guarded writing. I'm halfway through a book on writing at the moment, and the author states that good writing is what is written without fear of judgement or rather in ignorance of it.
I think in today's times, that's really hard to do.
What's written in personal diaries and journals, is very different to what's communicated in an email even if the words are intended for the same effect.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by redler on Monday August 05, 2013 @11:20PM
(#6164618)
It's difficult -- maybe impossible -- to write with no consideration for one's audience, present or eventual. The writer's equivalent of a Zen practitioner's pursuit of "mind like water".
"The only way you can write the truth is to assume that what you set down will never be read. Not by any other person, and not even by yourself at some later date. Otherwise you begin excusing yourself. You must see the writing as emerging like a long scroll of ink from the index finger of your right hand; you must see your left hand erasing it."
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by krmmalik on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @08:19AM
(#6166119)
That quote is totally on the money. I have a new blog post that I am writing today. I'm too scared to really say the truth of what I think and feel for fear of being judged. Shall I do it anyway?
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by mbillie1 on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:03PM
(#6164438)
This is probably not what you're looking for, but (as a relatively unrevealed piece of beautiful prose) I find this excellent: http://i.imgur.com/QHjoz.jpg
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by lsb on Monday August 05, 2013 @09:08PM
(#6164262)
Most people who are passionate about writing, for any kind of writing (code/text/music/etc), do it because they can't not do it; it's a compulsion, a need to tell a story. E B White was a master of his craft.
Re:“A book is a sneeze”
by kevination on Monday August 05, 2013 @09:04PM
(#6164248)
Thanks for posting this. In addition to his children's books, E.B White's letters and essays are all wonderful. He was a big contributor to the New Yorker for over 50 years. Reading the thoughts of such a great observer of the world always picks me up when I'm feeling depressed.
(It's a good letter also.)
I guess languages evolve over time and it is to be expected, but it does sadden me (not in a bitter way). I'd love to find further works like this. They're exceptionally delightful.
As a literature major, I think you're misrepresenting the 20th century; more specifically, the '50s.
The '50s gave birth to the Beat poets, Kerouac's On the Road, Allen Ginsberg (who wrote poetry that would be considered pretty vulgar even by today's standards, including highly detailed sex orgies), Burroughs' Naked Lunch, etc.
Basically, the '50s (and other points in the 20th century), had a lot of literature which was less elegant and less vulnerable--just as experimental as today's works of arts, just as cynical and dishonest.
EB White was a purist. That doesn't mean he was any better or worse. But he does have a particular style he is partial to.
There is more candid, vulnerable, and elegant literature being written today, just as there was in the late 20th century (late 90s). If you tell me the themes you're interested in, I might be able to recommend some stuff.
White was also the co-author of a famous prescriptive book on writing and grammar [1]. He knew what he was doing :)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Style
But to be honest, I'm thankful most of my English professors did not care for The Elements of Style, never recommended it, and instead recommended other style guides which were better suited to me and our times. :)
I loved Charlotte's Web, though. I first read it when I was 8, I believe, and it had quite an impact on me.
Thematically, quite different, but Dylan Thomas had the same, I like to call it deceptive 'straightforwardness' and 'simplicity'. Plus, his sincerity was refreshing. He stripped away all the pretentiousness that many symbolists/surrealists can be interpreted as having. When I read him I don't sense that same frivolous nature some academics have, including some stuff by EB White.
But I should clarify I went to school in Canada.
All of my style guides were from small publishers and many were written by my instructors/professors.
We/I did use some international ones from time to time (some profs had preferences). These were:
(1) MLA Style Manual or MLA Handbook
(2) AP Stylebook
(3) New York Times Manual of Style and Usage
(4) Chicago Manual of Style
Now that I'm in the United States, I use (4) at work. They have an online version of their entire book (first 30 days free): http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/home.html
But to get back to The Elements of Style, it would almost be easier to look at what S&W recommend and see how writers write today, as you're most likely to find the answer right there in front of you.
Elements of Style was written in 1918. There have been all sorts of stylistic suggestions since then, depending on your field. The reason why we used more than one style guide at school was because neither can be said to be definitive, exhaustive or the 'best'. Some provided better explanations as to why certain styles were preferred.
There was one book I read that I really enjoyed that was done as a literature work. "The Art of Profitability". Another one was "Five dysfunctions of a team" which I'm not sure if it could be classed as a true literature work or not, not to mention the fact that the ideas hit too close to hoe at the time I was reading it and demanded a serious life change that I wasn't quite able to enjoy the work itself.
I like prose that is a commentary on observations about life, man and business, if you're able to find anything.
I spent about 20 minutes reading through the archives on the lettersofnote website and loved every minute of it. It was the easiest route to a super meditative state I've ever experienced.
Here's one example that I really liked : http://www.lettersofnote.com/2013/06/let-us-blaze-new-trails...
But that said, I'm open to varying suggestions.
Thank you so much.
No idea about prose, but in terms of fiction, Death of a Salesman is the obvious one, I guess. Also, Rise of Silas Lapham, maybe?
I'll be honest with you, I don't like to read books about man and life and business all in a single work. I took a few American literature courses, but none dealt with all those themes.
For something completely different, have you ever read Slaughterhouse-Five?
I've added slaughterhouse to my reading list.
Thank you.
> I didn't mean all themes had to be in one work.
Oh, in that case...I can recommend so much. It'd take way too long.
Here are a few, off the top of my head:
The First Man by Albert Camus (novel)
The Happy Prince by Oscar Wilde (short story)
Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett (play)
If you want something challenging, try Cervantes' Don Quixote.
I think in today's times, that's really hard to do.
What's written in personal diaries and journals, is very different to what's communicated in an email even if the words are intended for the same effect.
"The only way you can write the truth is to assume that what you set down will never be read. Not by any other person, and not even by yourself at some later date. Otherwise you begin excusing yourself. You must see the writing as emerging like a long scroll of ink from the index finger of your right hand; you must see your left hand erasing it."
-- Margaret Atwood, The Blind Assassin
What say you?
Yet, America still has Cormac McCarthy.
The blog that this article is from, "Letters of Note", is full of interesting letters from interesting people.
I think i'm going to learn better how to write like this. I've just had an epiphany.