Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport

Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by foobarbazqux on Friday August 02, 2013 @01:32PM (#6148360)

It makes the most sense to consider the IRA and the UK as two separate groups. The IRA getting their demands met justifies terrorism for them; bad means, good ends. The UK getting peace justifies capitulating to the IRA for them; bad means, good ends. Why is capitulation bad means? The same reason that giving in to any bully is bad - you lose, the bully gets power, and it sets a precedent.

That said, the UK government certainly did a lot to piss off the Irish and it's not clearly the case that in the events leading up to the conflict all of the UK's actions were great and the Irish's were horrible.

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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by mikeash on Friday August 02, 2013 @02:05PM (#6148585)

So, again, you're assuming that the UK approach (or outcome) causes more terrorism, while the US approach causes less. And again, I disagree.

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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by foobarbazqux on Friday August 02, 2013 @02:21PM (#6148687)

Giving in to terrorism does not end terrorism, it only ends the violent expression of it. If you do this, you end up living in fear (i.e. terror) that if you do not continue to do what the terrorists want, there will be more violence.

Anyone who cooperates with an abusive power does so because they have been sufficiently terrorized by that power and they don't want to risk further abuse. That kind of cooperation is not a good outcome; it's only the acceptance of coercion, because the alternative is worse.

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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by mikeash on Friday August 02, 2013 @06:47PM (#6150150)

So, let's deliberately choose the worse outcome because... nope, I don't get it.

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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by foobarbazqux on Friday August 02, 2013 @11:24PM (#6150962)

That's not my point. My point is that the lesser of two evils is still evil. If I rob you at gunpoint and you give me your wallet and I spare your life, it's still a bad outcome, it just isn't as bad as it could be.

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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by mikeash on Saturday August 03, 2013 @09:33AM (#6152024)

Why is that an interesting point? There isn't necessarily a non-evil way to proceed, just worse and less-worse ways. I never said this was all roses and wine.

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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by foobarbazqux on Saturday August 03, 2013 @02:22PM (#6152823)

> I just said that it's a good outcome. Which it is.

I was only arguing with this.

> There isn't necessarily a non-evil way to proceed, just worse and less-worse ways. I never said this was all roses and wine.

This is all I mean by bad means, bad ends. This mindset opens up the discussion to debating the pros and cons of different approaches. Anyway, take care.

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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by voodoo123 on Saturday August 03, 2013 @12:23AM (#6151103)

Clearly you don't. Giving in to the demands of whoever bombs you is not the lesser of two evils.

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