Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by cma on Sunday May 17, 2009 @07:57PM
(#614089)
Yikes! These numbers are scary. A 10% decline in
engineering occupations in just 8 months?
The 10% decline was in "Engineering and architecture occupations," it would be nice if the two were separated out. We had a massive housing bubble and construction boom. It popped. In light of that it is hardly surprising that Architects had a major fall off.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by myth_drannon on Sunday May 17, 2009 @08:03PM
(#614094)
"‘Engineering and architecture occupations’ (actually the BLS reverses the order) is roughly 67% engineers, about 10% architects, surveyors and the like, with the remainder engineering and mapping technicians"
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by krschultz on Sunday May 17, 2009 @08:38PM
(#614132)
It makes perfect sense, if the entire decline was in architects then there would be 0 architects left.
Though I'm a mechanical engineer and my company hasn't really been affected, and my brother is an architect and his company has shrunk from 15 to 3. So I imagine the OP is right that a large chunk of the decline is from architecture/construction related jobs, but certainly not all.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by hc on Monday May 18, 2009 @06:39AM
(#614722)
i agree that the entire decline couldn't have been in architects, but remain mystified as to how (someone would conclude) this implies the _majority_ wasn't in architects
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by tptacek on Sunday May 17, 2009 @08:36PM
(#614128)
All the evidence available to me suggests that, however bad things may look for long-term employment in IT and CS, the market for freelance talent is strong --- enough so that we've been left wondering for the past 6 months if our business is countercyclical.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by pmjordan on Monday May 18, 2009 @04:53AM
(#614654)
I haven't been freelance for long enough to have a good grip on what demand is like normally, but I certainly haven't had a shortage of work coming my way recently. It seems to me that the amount of projects hasn't dropped much, but many companies who might have hired someone permanently to implement them previously are now taking on external contractors instead. The financial risk is, after all, easier to control.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by smanek on Sunday May 17, 2009 @09:48PM
(#614194)
For what it is worth, if you are actively looking for work a more professional email address would be better. Ideally, it should be something like '[email protected]' (or zach.burt, zach, etc) where mydomain.com hosts your resume, professional blog, portfolio, etc.
If that isn't feasible, even your school email address would be pretty good (a free domain isn't a deal breaker, but would rank pretty low for me) - but the local-part should be more professional than 'zackster' or 'zackattack.'
Nothing wrong with using nicknames/handles for personal stuff, but I would shy away from doing so while actively asking for work.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by sachinag on Monday May 18, 2009 @12:46AM
(#614386)
I make an exception for Gmail addresses when it comes to non-professional. I know that you can get free Google Apps and all that, but I'll generally trust someone on Gmail. Doesn't mean you can get away without a live blog/portfolio site, however.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by smanek on Monday May 18, 2009 @01:52AM
(#614458)
I would definitely agree. The 'gmail' part didn't strike me as out of place so much as the 'zackster' part. I believe Zackattack's name is 'Zachary Burt', which would make 'zackster' an informal (and, in my opinion, somewhat frat-ty) nickname.
The only situation I could imagine that would make 'zackster' appropriate for someone looking for a job would be if his first name were Zack (or Zachary, or some other derivative) and his last name were 'Ster.' Since I doubt that is the case, I suggested he set up some other address for soliciting business
Since Zack is just graduating it will be (relatively) easy for him to make the change now. It will likely be more difficult in a few years once his name/email get out there.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by sachinag on Monday May 18, 2009 @02:59AM
(#614542)
Agreed. I have a personal account and a professional Gmail account. My professional Gmail account isn't mapped to my URL; it's just my full name @ gmail.com; the personal is this username at Gmail. Not quite as informal, but still not business appropriate.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by smanek on Monday May 18, 2009 @01:45AM
(#614450)
If so, I misinterpreted it. My impression was that:
1) Zackattack doubts that the labor market is good for LAMP hackers, and puts out feelers suggesting that he is looking for work in the field (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=614130)
2) Tptacek says that he has had the opposite experience and that it's hard to find good hackers (i.e., the market is good for a hacker). He suggests that the market's supply is outpaced by demand and that he is having trouble hiring a good HTML/CSS hacker (the statement might be ambiguous, but since he says his usual sources are 'booked up' it seems pretty clear that he looking to hire a hacker). http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=614135
3) Zackattack responds that he is a HTML/CSS hacker, and might be a good fit for Tptacek's project (i.e., Zackattack is trying to solicit business). He leaves the email address [email protected] (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=614143)
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by YuriNiyazov on Sunday May 17, 2009 @11:28PM
(#614322)
I know that personal experience is anecdotal, but I have a full-time job and a wide choice of side gigs that I can pick up. I don't even say this to gloat, it just seems like the news outlets are blowing it out of proportion (as always)
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by patio11 on Monday May 18, 2009 @01:05AM
(#614408)
What you said.
My little slice of the Japanese countryside is heavily invested in manufacturing. There are 6,000 Brazilian factory workers in my town. About 5,000 of them are out of work right now, and many have taken a government offer where they'll pay for your plane ticket if you leave the country and promise to not come back.
Meanwhile I'm in an air-conditioned office, just got a positive performance evaluation, will receive my bonus on time this summer, and have job security that the Pope would envy.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by gustavo_duarte on Monday May 18, 2009 @01:42AM
(#614449)
Historically, our job security beats the Papacy hands down. Even excluding the early Popes who were martyred in quick succession, the average papal tenure is under 8 years, with a fair number of murders and alleged murders. Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes. So I think you're right about the Pope's envy :)
Regarding the job market, I do contract work in Colorado and have had no problems either. My programmer friends in the US, Europe, and Brazil are all gainfully employed. I think there's a chronic shortage of good programming talent that's not going away anytime soon.
Re:A Bad Time to Be A Professional
by enjo on Sunday May 17, 2009 @08:39PM
(#614133)
Yet we had tremendous trouble hiring a solid developer (Denver/Boulder) a month and a half ago. We had a bunch of applications from the barely qualifieds, but it seems that those with a strong skill-set are still in demand.
Hell, I still get 2 or 3 queries a week from headhunters, and I'm not actively looking.
So the majority of 10% decline are engineers.
Though I'm a mechanical engineer and my company hasn't really been affected, and my brother is an architect and his company has shrunk from 15 to 3. So I imagine the OP is right that a large chunk of the decline is from architecture/construction related jobs, but certainly not all.
Good catch, and your comment on the housing bubble seems apropos.
You have any friends looking for a LAMP hacker?
If that isn't feasible, even your school email address would be pretty good (a free domain isn't a deal breaker, but would rank pretty low for me) - but the local-part should be more professional than 'zackster' or 'zackattack.'
Nothing wrong with using nicknames/handles for personal stuff, but I would shy away from doing so while actively asking for work.
The only situation I could imagine that would make 'zackster' appropriate for someone looking for a job would be if his first name were Zack (or Zachary, or some other derivative) and his last name were 'Ster.' Since I doubt that is the case, I suggested he set up some other address for soliciting business
Since Zack is just graduating it will be (relatively) easy for him to make the change now. It will likely be more difficult in a few years once his name/email get out there.
1) Zackattack doubts that the labor market is good for LAMP hackers, and puts out feelers suggesting that he is looking for work in the field (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=614130)
2) Tptacek says that he has had the opposite experience and that it's hard to find good hackers (i.e., the market is good for a hacker). He suggests that the market's supply is outpaced by demand and that he is having trouble hiring a good HTML/CSS hacker (the statement might be ambiguous, but since he says his usual sources are 'booked up' it seems pretty clear that he looking to hire a hacker). http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=614135
3) Zackattack responds that he is a HTML/CSS hacker, and might be a good fit for Tptacek's project (i.e., Zackattack is trying to solicit business). He leaves the email address [email protected] (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=614143)
Did you have a different interpretation?
My little slice of the Japanese countryside is heavily invested in manufacturing. There are 6,000 Brazilian factory workers in my town. About 5,000 of them are out of work right now, and many have taken a government offer where they'll pay for your plane ticket if you leave the country and promise to not come back.
Meanwhile I'm in an air-conditioned office, just got a positive performance evaluation, will receive my bonus on time this summer, and have job security that the Pope would envy.
We don't even know how good we have it some days.
Regarding the job market, I do contract work in Colorado and have had no problems either. My programmer friends in the US, Europe, and Brazil are all gainfully employed. I think there's a chronic shortage of good programming talent that's not going away anytime soon.
Hell, I still get 2 or 3 queries a week from headhunters, and I'm not actively looking.