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Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by snitko on Thursday August 01, 2013 @08:48AM (#6139849)
> In post-apocalyptical fantasies where government armed guys cease to exist, who would usually thrive? Organized armed guys.

As scientifically established by hollywood movies. Brilliant.

Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by seren on Thursday August 01, 2013 @09:14AM (#6140029)
In places with lack of central government, (ruthless) armed group tends to become the de facto ruling regional organisations, like Somalia, Libya, etc. This is debatable that the lack of government is the only issue with these areas. However, I don't have examples who come to mind where the lack of central authority transitioned in a peaceful coexistence of different factions/regions/tribes.
Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by snitko on Thursday August 01, 2013 @10:53AM (#6140687)
Let's conduct a thought experiment: tomorrow everyone in the US wakes up and realizes there's no government, no cops, no army etc. And for the purity of the experiment, let's say there is no way to create a new government. Do you think it'll be like Syria or Somalia? Do you think the demand for security and peace will suddenly evaporate?
Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by seren on Thursday August 01, 2013 @12:04PM (#6141234)
It is really too far-fetched to provide a meaningful answer or discussion. Does it includes prison guards ? Are the inmates left to starve, or running freely ? Does it includes fire-fighters ? FDA, can I sell you my cure for cancer ? ...

It is probably due to my education, and the time I was born, but I can't imagine a society working without "safeguards". Maybe it is because of lack of imagination, but I would like to see a working example, before making the jump. Which is a kind of chicken egg problem, because if no one tries, you can't know it works. Maybe it will seem obvious retrospectively in 500 or 1000 years, but currently it is not.

Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by snitko on Thursday August 01, 2013 @01:21PM (#6141869)
I would recommend a non-fiction book "The Machinery Of Freedom" by David D. Friedman, it depicts and discusses how a society could function without a government.
Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by seren on Friday August 02, 2013 @11:47AM (#6147659)
It seems to be available online, I'll check it or at least skim through it.
Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by enko on Thursday August 01, 2013 @11:07AM (#6140783)
Let's toss in "no jobs" and "no food" to add a little pizzazz to your thought experiment.
Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by snitko on Thursday August 01, 2013 @11:40AM (#6141041)
1. Government doesn't provide food 2. Government only provides SOME jobs

Even if we assume that ALL people who can no longer be employed because government disappeared cannot find jobs, it would only demonstrate that they can't work on jobs no one wants to pay for voluntarily. That is, if people wouldn't need cops anymore, because (let's imagine) there was no crime - no one would pay to private protection agencies and they would have to find something else to do. "Jobs" are not the desirable result, it's "doing something valuable" that's important.

Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by enko on Thursday August 01, 2013 @12:33PM (#6141464)
I think you'll find that the presence of effective, competent governance is pretty strongly correlated with the availability of both food and jobs.

You missed my point, anyway, which is that your comfortable notions of a safe, orderly society will go right out the window once the economy breaks down, which it would if you removed the framework in which it operates, which is basically indistinguishable from government.

"Any society is only three square meals away from revolution"

Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by snitko on Thursday August 01, 2013 @01:34PM (#6141971)
The proposition is not to remove the framework, but to de-monopolize it. We currently have a government framework of law, but nothing (except people not realizing it's even possible) prevents us from having multiple frameworks, each operating on its own client base (even when those clients physically live on the same territory) and negotiating with each other when disputes between clients of two different agencies arise.

The major difference in this situation would be that clients of such firms would voluntarily pay money to be protected by them. If they don't want protection or don't like specific laws, they stop paying or switch. The monopoly we have now extracts money from taxpayers at gunpoint and provides a rather crappy service.

Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by dragonwriter on Thursday August 01, 2013 @02:08PM (#6142210)
> The proposition is not to remove the framework, but to de-monopolize it.

To demonopolize it is to remove it. The monopoly is the essence of the framework.

> We currently have a government framework of law, but nothing (except people not realizing it's even possible) prevents us from having multiple frameworks, each operating on its own client base (even when those clients physically live on the same territory) and negotiating with each other when disputes between clients of two different agencies arise.

This kind of patron/client system is not novel, and most people do, in fact, recognize that it is possible.

> The major difference in this situation would be that clients of such firms would voluntarily pay money to be protected by them.

Unless there is some supervisory entity that does have a monopoly enforcing it (in which case, this remains a monopoly system with low-level enforcement farmed out, not a demonopolized system), voluntariness seems, well, dubious. You've just invented a system competing warlords (well, invented is too strong a term, its the basic model of primitive feudalism.)

Re:Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport by xentronium on Thursday August 01, 2013 @08:57AM (#6139892)
Do you deem it unreasonable?