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Re:How Gmail’s New Inbox Is Affecting Open Rates by kbenson on Tuesday July 23, 2013 @06:53PM (#6093452)
The problem is, the line of what's acceptable communication is different for every user. Some users want NO communication, others was service outage notices, still others may want to know about new features or enhancements that may benefit them (or may appreciate the notice, even if they didn't have a preference). Additionally it's impossible to know who will benefit from feature announcements/promotions. Does that mean everyone needs to deal with no email communication by default just because a few people feel it's too hard to find a (legally required) opt-out link in the first email they receive?

This isn't a conversation about "SPAM", it's a conversation about companies managing customer contact responsibly, and customers responding responsibly to the contact, which in some cases means not overreacting.

> There's a pretty simple test for your situation, really: if you want to send people marketing messages but aren't willing to ask their permission explicitly because you think they'll say no, your messages are probably spam and you're probably a spammer.

But that's begging the question, since you already put the reasoning in place. What if it's as simple as testing shows that customers will overwhelmingly opt-out initially, but then there's a steady influx of evidence that customers would benefit from some level of contact (i.e. support requests that say as much, forum posts, etc), such as noting when a previously charged for service is now free, when service outages are scheduled to happen, etc.

In the end, is it really so hard to see how a company acts in it's correspondence before vilifying it?

Re:How Gmail’s New Inbox Is Affecting Open Rates by Silhouette on Tuesday July 23, 2013 @07:53PM (#6093671)
The problem is, the line of what's acceptable communication is different for every user.

Sure it is, but some things are the wrong side of that line for most users. That's why there are laws against them.

Does that mean everyone needs to deal with no email communication by default just because a few people feel it's too hard to find a (legally required) opt-out link in the first email they receive?

As I said, if you're worried enough that you aren't willing to ask people to opt in instead, you're probably a spammer.

"Dealing with no email communication by default" is not what we're talking about. No-one here is saying you shouldn't send e-mails for the purpose that someone actually gave you their address, for example.

If you actually meant "dealing with no marketing email communication by default" then I'm pretty sure most people would "deal with" that just fine. When was the last time you heard someone complain that they didn't get spammed enough today, or their browsing experience was suffering from not having enough ads cluttering the pages they wanted to read?

This isn't a conversation about "SPAM"

I'm pretty sure it is. It's right there in the quote from the article in the first post of this thread, and in numerous further posts between there and here.

But that's begging the question

No, it wasn't. If I'd written "If you want to send people marketing messages that they don't want, you're a spammer", that would indeed have been a tautology. But I left you another option, finding out whether they want them or not by asking first.

In the end, is it really so hard to see how a company acts in it's correspondence before vilifying it?

No, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a company that specialises in sending bulk e-mail discussing the possibility of actively circumventing measures intended to stop users having to read marketing mails they don't want. Again, it's right there in the quotation at the top of this thread.

(Your other examples weren't unreasonable, but they also clearly weren't marketing mail assuming they related to people actually using the service you were sending the information about.)

Re:How Gmail’s New Inbox Is Affecting Open Rates by kbenson on Tuesday July 23, 2013 @09:59PM (#6094090)
Please go back (quite a ways at this point) and find my response that started this thread was. It wasn't top level, it was in response to someone specifically calling out companies for sending them email after signing up. In that respect, this isn't just about spam, it's about user responses to company email communications. Please view my posts in that light if you want to accurately interpret my position.
Re:How Gmail’s New Inbox Is Affecting Open Rates by duaneb on Wednesday July 24, 2013 @10:14AM (#6096263)
Any unsolicited company marketing email is, to me, spam. Spam is very relevant here.
Re:How Gmail’s New Inbox Is Affecting Open Rates by duaneb on Wednesday July 24, 2013 @10:11AM (#6096251)
> The problem is, the line of what's acceptable communication is different for every user.

Make each bit opt-in. Problem solved. These emails really should be off by default.