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Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by cromwellian on Saturday July 20, 2013 @01:59PM (#6075947)
What's with the Google Derangement Syndrome on HN recently? Any change in any Google service prompts the same "I'm taking all my toys and going home" response.

Google used to have a separate profile system just like profiles.yahoo.com, and like Yahoo, having lots of disparate services with weak unification was a problem. G+ is that unifying profile layer. Is it really beyond the pale for a service to prompt you to enter some optional information about yourself? Yes, optional, as in, I have hundreds of followers on G+ with obviously bogus profiles. You don't have to use G+'s social feed, you don't have to friend anyone.

I personally barely use Twitter or Facebook, mostly as single-sign-on to forums and other sites.

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by 6d0debc071 on Saturday July 20, 2013 @03:58PM (#6076326)
> Google used to have a separate profile system just like profiles.yahoo.com, and like Yahoo, having lots of disparate services with weak unification was a problem.

No, it wasn't. It was very simple. You want an account for youtube, sign up on youtube, you want an account for something else - sign up there. You want your accounts to be the same login across all the services? Use the same login across all the services.

It wasn't confusing, it wasn't complex, it didn't present any problems to anyone of even moderate intelligence.

> Is it really beyond the pale for a service to prompt you to enter some optional information about yourself?

It's not really optional when they start tying everything together. I don't want my real name tied to any of my online activities - but if my google accounts were stuck together through google+ it would be, because I use my real name on my phone.

It's possible to lie of course, and tell a different lie with a different email address for every time you want to limit the degree to which different portions of your data contaminate other things. But it's a pain in the arse and only realistically possible because they're not enforcing their single sign on policy that strongly yet.

They're made it far more complicated to keep your privacy than it was before.

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by cromwellian on Saturday July 20, 2013 @04:28PM (#6076444)
Having to create a separate account on N services with the same credentials is simpler than having a unified account? And what if your login is already taken on one of the other services, now you're forced to have multiple credentials. And then when you need to update something, like change an email address, 2factor authentication, or some other feature, you've now got to edit settings on many services.

If you want an anonymous Google account, simply create one, which is what everyone has been doing for a long time, even for gmail prior to G+, people would create multiple accounts.

The model isn't K identities and N services, you need O(K*N) credentials in the worse case. It's K identities and N services is O(K) credentials.

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by noloqy on Saturday July 20, 2013 @04:59PM (#6076551)
> If you want an anonymous Google account, simply create one

I did. I had to sign up with a "backup" email address though, for which I entered my primary email address. Now, whenever Gmail users send an email to my primary email address, they see the bogus name that I created the anonymous Google account with. Crap.

And Youtube, please stop asking me to use my "real" name. Is it that hard to remember my preferences?

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by 6d0debc071 on Saturday July 20, 2013 @05:07PM (#6076578)
> Having to create a separate account on N services with the same credentials is simpler than having a unified account?

I said it wasn't complicated, that's not the same thing as saying it's simpler.

What's simpler is going to depend to a high degree on your use of the system.

For instance, I do some work with disadvantaged people - charity/volunteer stuff - and some of the people who haven't touched a computer before cannot understand that the government won't be able to track them through their Universal Jobmatch accounts if they use other websites that don't use that sign on. For them, it probably is simpler to have one log on.

Taking myself as another example though, I'm obviously going to find it more complicated to manage alternate identities, that have to at least passingly sound real, to ensure my privacy than I did just not having my real name online at all and reusing some of the assorted user-names I used on other sites while using different email addresses to stop it all getting tied together.

It's a trade off - at least from a user perspective - what are you optimising for?

As I see it, you gain some small ease of understanding for people who have just never used a computer before, (and increase the penalty when they mess up and leave themselves signed in on a public computer, which they do .) And you get some small benefit if you want to change your email address across all the service (though how often does that happen - and how many services do you really use?) However, you make it more difficult for people to remain anonymous.

There's also the fact that a similar thing could have been done without tying everything through G+. Which of course they're not going to do because they want to force you to use it.

We're talking about marginal gains, in return for making things much harder for those of us who don't want our names floating about associated with all we do.

(That and I question whether it's a good idea to make people have one sign in for so many things anyway. Nanny-state-me is like 'That's a terrible idea, the only thing worse than a crap password is the same crap password for everything.' )

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by cromwellian on Saturday July 20, 2013 @09:46PM (#6077435)
It's somewhat worse than just KN, because if you have say, an iOS or Android tablet, then you'll have apps for YouTube, Gmail, Maps, Talk, Picassa, Drive, etc If you had to sign in to every once of those mobile apps the number of devices you own, it would be very very irritating.

As it is now, you add your account to your Android phone, or Chrome single-sign-on and you're done.

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by andrewflnr on Saturday July 20, 2013 @04:45PM (#6076507)
Um, password re-use is well-known to be a Bad Thing, especially if you're using the same password for gmail as for some seedy site you were curious about. It increases your security attack surface.
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by 6d0debc071 on Saturday July 20, 2013 @04:51PM (#6076526)
The all eggs in one basket approach exposes you to equal risks online, the minute that account's compromised they've got everything, and worse risks in the case that you leave yourself logged in somewhere.
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by pessimizer on Saturday July 20, 2013 @03:39PM (#6076273)
You must be replying to the wrong post. This post is asking whether others have been asked to create a g+ account in order to log in using Google, not "I'm taking all my toys and going home" or whatever childish way you want to characterize people who are "deranged" about Google.
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by cromwellian on Saturday July 20, 2013 @03:49PM (#6076307)
I'm talking about the other responses to the OP. Lately, if Google is mentioned on HN in a story, you are pretty much guaranteed that several of the off-topic responses will be either something about PRISM, Reader, or moving to DDG/FastMail, even if the story, for example, isn't even about PRISM or politics. Reader Derangement Syndrome is another, with people seriously proposing in some comments that Gmail is a shutdown risk given Reader.

G+ is Google's centralized system for single-sign-on and account profiles. It used to be confusingly distributed over multiple services, now it is unified. Oh, and it has a news feed associated on it at plus.google.com that you can totally ignore if you want.

Some of the reactions to this are way over the top. I guess I'm burning karma points by posting this, but it is an annoying trend.

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by eunice on Saturday July 20, 2013 @05:01PM (#6076555)
It's not that Gmail is a shutdown risk - that's deranged yes, it's Gmail IMAP people are worried about.
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by ketralnis on Saturday July 20, 2013 @03:49PM (#6076303)
And how would you suggest that he reply to a growing trend that occurs as an aggregate across hundreds of disparate comments?
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by pessimizer on Saturday July 20, 2013 @04:01PM (#6076337)
He could reply to them, or be silent. I don't know why it's so deranged to "take your toys and go home" aka stop using a service (even loudly), if you find that a change has been made that is a dealbreaker for you.

The defense that you can only half-participate in g+ is not much of a defense because 1) people may not want to support changes of that sort with their patronage lest it continue as a trend, and/or 2) the thing being objected to was a forced escalation of participation - why would a user assume this would be the last and that half-participation in g+ will remain an option?

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by Gormo on Monday July 22, 2013 @12:18PM (#6084674)
Perhaps observing this phenomenon should lead him to consider that there might be some substance to these critiques, and not just dismiss them all out of hand as some sort of "derangement".
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by svitcov on Saturday July 20, 2013 @02:52PM (#6076101)
If Google just wanted me to add a few relevant details to my primary account for some obvious useful purpose, details that would be kept private, I would happily oblige. However, this goes beyond that: Google is asking me to share information with no apparent application use (birth date?! gender???) to ANYONE who stumbles upon my G+ profile. I am not against unifying their services - in fact, this is what Google's basic authentication service should and could have done - but that is not the full extent of what is happening here, as far as I can tell.
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by tekacs on Saturday July 20, 2013 @03:23PM (#6076214)
You don't actually have to share those details publicly if you don't want, to be fair. :/

Edit: for comparison and openness's sake, my profile: https://plus.google.com/116103902550362700148/about

I have few qualms about sharing that, given that I know exactly what I've shared from there.

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by dannyr on Saturday July 20, 2013 @03:28PM (#6076229)
Dude, I don't think you can convince him with facts.
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by login1234 on Saturday July 20, 2013 @07:43PM (#6077033)
Dude, maybe people do not want to provide that info to anyone.
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by svitcov on Saturday July 20, 2013 @08:43PM (#6077238)
Thanks - I wasn't award that I could hide the info (it certainly wasn't made obvious by the dialog). I still think that forcing me to fumble around in G+'s settings to do this is unnecessary (although I can see why Google is doing this!).
Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by Gormo on Monday July 22, 2013 @12:14PM (#6084645)
> What's with the Google Derangement Syndrome on HN recently? Any change in any Google service prompts the same "I'm taking all my toys and going home" response.

This seems to be a bit of an inverted perspective. The trend in Google's behavior seems to indicate its own "I'm taking my toys and going home" mindset. This is almost literally true: Google is telling people who are using their "toys" "either come to my house and play under my rules, or you don't get to play with that anymore."

> having lots of disparate services with weak unification was a problem.

How is this a "problem"? What about the many users who want to choose specific services a-la-carte, and not be forced into compromising their preferences with one type of service just to have access to their preferred solution for another?

"Unification" of services in this heavy-handed way is like Comcast telling its customers that if they want cable service, they have to get phone service from Comcast too, whether they want it or not.

Re:Google login now requires Google+ Account by TrevorJ on Saturday July 20, 2013 @10:51PM (#6077581)
The issue as I see it is that there's a certain non-zero chance of getting your account suspended from service x or y, sometimes for reasons that are not common sense or self-evident. Considering how integral Google Drive and Gmail are to many people's workflow, it isn't good that you are forced, in effect to take on more risk by having so many services linked to it.

As an example, there were cases of people losing access to Gmail after signing up for Google+ with a birthday that was too young to comply with the G+ TOS. Another example - it is fairly trivial to get an Adsense account suspended by using a script to commit click fraud against the target account. Similar things can be done to an ad-enabled Youtube channel. It's not outside the realm of possibility at all that a third party could cause you to lose access to your email account through one of these methods if your accounts are linked.