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Re:Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy amid staggering de... by ChuckMcM on Thursday July 18, 2013 @05:33PM (#6066680)
It is my hope, and this is unpopular I know, that Detroit successfully unburdens itself from all obligations associated with pension plans. I certainly support pensions for people who dedicate their life to public service, but seeing cities and counties decimated by poorly managed pensions is crushing. Between early qualification, and 'punching' or otherwise basting your pension salary based on your last year worked, have been policies that have robbed other pensioners and citizens alike of benefits and services. Without a reasonable discussion about what can be expected of the taxpayers to bear, and what cannot, we will see more Detroits.
Re:Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy amid staggering de... by jurassic on Thursday July 18, 2013 @07:49PM (#6067348)
I'm not sure I'm understanding you. Are you suggesting that current retirees should get nothing of what was promised to them? What are they supposed to do? Seems like this would put a lot of old folks into a desperate situation and only worsen the city's downward spiral.
Re:Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy amid staggering de... by ChuckMcM on Friday July 19, 2013 @01:21AM (#6068460)
I am pretty sure you do understand. Your appeal to compassion for "those for whom commitments are made" is a powerful one, but ultimately fails as fiscal policy. The city dies, the remaining 706 thousand people of Detroit get to watch their city turned into a cesspool of crime, uncollected garbage, and unreliable services. And those old folks lose their pensions too. Governments have made commitments that they are mathematically unable to keep. You need look no further than the unfunded CalPers (California's Pension) fund to see what is coming on the horizon.

At this point there are no "good" answers, but the path to the "right" answer is pretty clear, it is unsustainable to balance the retirement of a few on the labors of others.

I've made a number of suggestions to folks in Sacremento, pretty much anyone who asks and some that don't. On various ways the system might work. One outcome though is you don't get "lifetime income" unless you do what Mr. Money Mustache suggests and convert your lifestyle into something that can survive on a 3-4% annual withdrawal rate of your accumulated benefit.

Re:Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy amid staggering de... by Shivetya on Thursday July 18, 2013 @08:40PM (#6067576)
retirees, regardless of position, should get a set amount. It really should not be more than they made per year while an employee - many systems let them game it by popping overtime on it, unpaid vacation, and the like. There are cops with 100k+ pensions who retired at 50!. There are politicians with even bigger payouts, judges making over 200k in retirement.

There needs to be a "retirement" value for government employment that results in a good retirement but not extravagant. Sorry, but once you start passing the fifty thousand in retirement your getting a bit much. I would cap any retirement at median for your region, with minor and I mean MINOR boosts to cover medical for special circumstances, like really hurt in line of duty.

Go look at the bad retirements that people are paying.

Re:Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy amid staggering de... by jes on Thursday July 18, 2013 @07:46PM (#6067337)
Not to be too cynical, but I wonder how many government employees see themselves as dedicating their lives to public service, as opposed to those who simply prefer a government job over a private sector job.

I think the whole public servant thing is largely a myth.

Re:Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy amid staggering de... by ChuckMcM on Thursday July 18, 2013 @08:00PM (#6067407)
I can't speak for all of them, or even a majority of them, but I do make a point to get to know my representatives (and the candidates who would like to be elected) and have found a number of people who would rather not have to be in government but have found themselves forced their by a sense of "if no one else will do this I guess I will" sort of duty.

For what its worth, its pretty easy to talk to these people. Its hard not to talk to them when an election is coming up.

I sometimes think voters that care enough to engage are a myth. :-)

Re:Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy amid staggering de... by wpietri on Friday July 19, 2013 @11:13PM (#6074196)
Not in my experience.

I did one contract for a state government long ago. A friend of a friend brought me in because she knew I'd be unable to comprehend the normal pace of government work, and would therefore cluelessly batter my way though institutional inertia to get things done in time to meet certain goals.

I am definitely not suited for large organization, private or public. And there certainly were people who were just punching a clock. But a lot of people were, despite decades of service, still coming in every day determined to make things better.

As far as I can tell, it's the same thing with the teachers I know. It is a hard job, much more difficult than I could ever do. But despite that, most teachers I've met are doing the work because they really like teaching, and they care about what happens.

It blows my mind, really. My short attention span and desire to stir up trouble mean I'm well suited for startups, but could never spend 40 years doing the same thing. That, however, is exactly what we want out of government: stability, reliability, predictability.