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Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by JoshTriplett on Thursday July 11, 2013 @10:08PM (#6030480)
Mir heavily emulates Android's SurfaceFlinger design, and Canonical claims it'll be a better fit for Ubuntu for smartphones. Highly debatable whether that'll actually hold true.

In any case, there's no fundamental design flaw in Wayland; this just seems like a common case of NIH.

Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by colanderman on Thursday July 11, 2013 @11:28PM (#6030741)
there's no fundamental design flaw in Wayland

Except that window management is tightly coupled to display management.

The Mir developers seem to at least seem to care about software modularity.

Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by JoshTriplett on Thursday July 11, 2013 @11:38PM (#6030772)
> window management is tightly coupled to display management.

Yes, it is, both in general and in Wayland.

Specifically, what would once have been called just a window manager now needs to be a compositing manager, managing window contents and compositing them onto the screen. That compositing manager also needs to handle input, since input depends on where, how, and if windows are rendered. And once you're handling all of that, there's nothing useful left that corresponds to an X server other than graphics memory buffer management, which is the kernel's job these days.

Wayland handles software modularity by providing a library for use by prospective compositing managers. Moving the compositing manager into a separate process from the thing actually doing the rendering does not add a useful form of modularity.

Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by colanderman on Friday July 12, 2013 @08:34AM (#6032220)
Yes, it is, both in general

Citation? X11 window managers are decoupled from the rest of X and the OS by well-specified protocols.

That compositing manager also needs to handle input

Oh yes, I forgot how Wayland couples the WM to the OS as well.

Wayland handles software modularity by providing a library for use by prospective compositing managers. Moving the compositing manager into a separate process from the thing actually doing the rendering does not add a useful form of modularity.

1) Can you point me to an API specification for Wayland compositor libraries? If not, it's not decoupled.

2) Can one switch window managers without restarting the compositor (and thus losing window state) with Wayland? If not, it's missing a "useful form of modularity" provided by X11.

Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by bkor on Friday July 12, 2013 @05:26AM (#6031735)
The focus within Mir is Unity, not anything else. Wayland wants to work with every desktop environment. Further in Mir they did not give a stability agreement, Wayland has.

Software modularity is overrated, but in this case I think you got it wrong.

Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by colanderman on Friday July 12, 2013 @08:36AM (#6032228)
Your last sentence makes no sense. Did you mean to say "and" instead of "but", or "underrated" instead of "overrated"?
Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by jessaustin on Friday July 12, 2013 @09:50AM (#6032543)
It made sense to me. You praised Mir's modularity. bkor doesn't find Mir to be modular, but doesn't reckon modularity to be as important as many people think.
Re:Ubuntu 13.10 to ship with Mir instead of X by qznc on Friday July 12, 2013 @04:22AM (#6031544)
The issue of who owns the buffer (server in Mir, client in Wayland) seems to be central difference. Is there a good blog post or something about this?