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Re:EU recognizes Internet access as a fundamental right, on ... by ivankirigin on Sunday May 10, 2009 @01:45PM (#602297)
Positive rights are very different than negative rights. Right to free speech means no one can oppress your speech, essentially barring action, so it's called a negative right.

A right to a trial by jury is the only positive right in the US Bill of Rights. It's a huge pain in the ass to do jury duty, in part because law mandates we take action.

A positive right to health care coverage or internet access are ridiculous, because it is a mandate for someone to provide service to you.

Instead of people operating in good faith through mutually beneficial exchange, the government steps in and makes people do it. That kind of violence or theft is bad.

I'm all for greater access to the internet. Calling it a right is a bad idea.

Re:EU recognizes Internet access as a fundamental right, on ... by netsp on Sunday May 10, 2009 @09:00PM (#602748)
There is also a middle ground: Instead of 'rights,' call internet access, health care or jury trials 'good.' Have governments pursue 'good.' They will argue about whether laissez faire is better at achieving this good then direct provision, but the groundwork is less idealistic & thus more likely to be rational.

If something is a 'right,' it makes it automatically take precedence over anything that is simply good (like faster internet access). This is a problem if you are deciding between connecting a small number of people or improving the service for a large number of people.

I don't think the distinction between positive & negative is useful for anything more then a rule of thumb. It's just that positive rights tend to cost less to grant. If we were comfortable with fewer absolutes, I would favour replacing rights with good, bad, better, worse. *For the sake of predictability & a workable battle cry, it may be useful to grant tentative rights. But I wouldn't call them rights. "The government has decided to grant everyone access by 20XX."

Re:EU recognizes Internet access as a fundamental right, on ... by anigbrowl on Sunday May 10, 2009 @02:48PM (#602365)
this is a naive viewpoint. government is not necessarily an 'other' which impinges on us; rather, it's an organization to which people can outsource the largest scale tasks, such as infrastructure or military defense. It would be nice if all commercial exchanges were mutually beneficial, but they're not.
Re:EU recognizes Internet access as a fundamental right, on ... by anamax on Sunday May 10, 2009 @06:52PM (#602631)
this is a naive viewpoint. It would be nice if all govt activities were beneficial, but they're not.

Also, commercial enterprises can do very large scale tasks such as build dams, road systems, and the like. It's not much good at doing military defense, but for making stuff....

Re:EU recognizes Internet access as a fundamental right, on ... by ivankirigin on Monday May 11, 2009 @07:48PM (#604568)
If I started a country, I'd keep defense lightweight by training people in small arms and getting a contract in place with Blackwater. Private warfighting and defense are already viable and popular.
Re:EU recognizes Internet access as a fundamental right, on ... by ivankirigin on Monday May 11, 2009 @01:21PM (#603843)
Please describe some of the commercial exchanges you partake in that are not mutually beneficial.

The difference between government and an outsourcing organization is that the government will violently shut you in a room for a very long time if you decide not to participate in a mandate.