Re:Justice Dept. defends secret rulings in new spy court filing
by DanielBMarkham on Tuesday July 09, 2013 @07:33PM
(#6016415)
Yeah I wouldn't get wrapped up in the term "libertarian" for the same reason I wouldn't get wrapped up in "Democrat", "Republican" or "Whig". These are highly flexible monikers.
I think if you understand Locke, natural law, some Hobbes, and the writings of Jefferson you get the picture well enough. No need to make this into a ink-blot test.
"...The posture of Federalist Nos. 9-10 are clear: Hamilton and Madison are making the case for representative, republican government...A libertarian government, at least as I understand it, approaches the question from the opposite direction: the protection of individual rights is the first and foremost concern, and sole purpose, of government..."
I think you're creating a false dichotomy here when there's only a natural tension. A representative, republican government is the most efficient and longest lasting chance the nation had of preserving individual rights. More to the point, though, Madison and Hamilton were describing and promoting their proposed structure, not political theory. The entire discussion was around whether their structure would work or not. (I note that the anti-federalists, like many libertarians throughout history, were labeled as having farcical and far-fetched ideas of dangers that never would actually occur. Those guys turned out to be more right than wrong.)
It was up to the ratifying bodies to align the constitution with what everybody already knew -- the ideals expressed in the DOI by Jefferson and penned by half a dozen philosophers during the Enlightenment. Hence the BOR.
I don't want to get into a long discussion of ratification. HN isn't the place for it. But little-l libertarians trace their lineage back to both sides of the constitutional debates, and back farther than that. I don't think you'll find anybody wearing a hat that says "libertarian" on it in 1787, but if we sat down and described these things that libertarians believe, I'd bet 95% of the founders would be on-board. There is no argument to be had here. There's no direct opposition, but there's always tension between personal freedom and structure. That's what the constitution was: one of the best and most effective compromises man has come up with so far. Libertarians believe in that compromise, and because so many of the founders were libertarians, we got a good one.
I think if you understand Locke, natural law, some Hobbes, and the writings of Jefferson you get the picture well enough. No need to make this into a ink-blot test.
"...The posture of Federalist Nos. 9-10 are clear: Hamilton and Madison are making the case for representative, republican government...A libertarian government, at least as I understand it, approaches the question from the opposite direction: the protection of individual rights is the first and foremost concern, and sole purpose, of government..."
I think you're creating a false dichotomy here when there's only a natural tension. A representative, republican government is the most efficient and longest lasting chance the nation had of preserving individual rights. More to the point, though, Madison and Hamilton were describing and promoting their proposed structure, not political theory. The entire discussion was around whether their structure would work or not. (I note that the anti-federalists, like many libertarians throughout history, were labeled as having farcical and far-fetched ideas of dangers that never would actually occur. Those guys turned out to be more right than wrong.)
It was up to the ratifying bodies to align the constitution with what everybody already knew -- the ideals expressed in the DOI by Jefferson and penned by half a dozen philosophers during the Enlightenment. Hence the BOR.
I don't want to get into a long discussion of ratification. HN isn't the place for it. But little-l libertarians trace their lineage back to both sides of the constitutional debates, and back farther than that. I don't think you'll find anybody wearing a hat that says "libertarian" on it in 1787, but if we sat down and described these things that libertarians believe, I'd bet 95% of the founders would be on-board. There is no argument to be had here. There's no direct opposition, but there's always tension between personal freedom and structure. That's what the constitution was: one of the best and most effective compromises man has come up with so far. Libertarians believe in that compromise, and because so many of the founders were libertarians, we got a good one.